Replacing Our Losses in Corps Numbers

[EKBari]

True -- but if the D2/3s were allowed to compete in Quarters on Thurs , even if it only 2 or 3 of them, some folks may have been exposed to the fact that the quality is worth checking out on Sat morn. Maybe not right away, but over time that would have to have a positive impact on the D2/3 crowds during Championship week.

BTW -- what is the plan for D2/3s in Indy the next 10 years, anybody know??? Same stadium or smaller venue??

Then that matter needs to be taken to the D2/3 directors because they are the ones who voted on the issue and agreed it was in their best interests.

[JazzmanSA80]

The downplay of D2/3 corps is blatantly obvious just by visiting DCI.org and clicking on "Corps." You immediately see all of your Div. I corps listed, then way down at the bottom, "Other Corps:" with links to Div. 2/3 corps, few of which even have websites.

I used to dislike the way professional sports like mlb.com have the main website, and then all the team sites are branched off the mlb.com site, and all use the same format. However, I think that this would be a preferable way to handle the corps' sites so that all the corps have their own site, and they are all easy to navigate because if you know the layout of one, you know the layout of them all.

If DCI isn't <i>trying</i> to keep D2/3 corps down deliberately, they are doing a mighty fine job by accident.

[Liam]

If DCI isn't trying to keep D2/3 corps down deliberately, they are doing a mighty fine job by accident.

:P

(although I know it's not funny, really ....)

Edited June 25, 2007 by Liam

[Meaghatron]

I like the idea of DCI having a place on their website, probably under each corps, that lists if they have spots open and what those spots are.

If someone is looking to march in DCI, why not check DCI.org to see what is available? Some may not realize that their is a Div. II/III corps (possibly near them) that has spots open.

[audiodb]

Again you mis-represent the reality of DCI's impact at it's dawn in an attempt to blame DCI for the failures of so many corps back then, but that's OK.

First, where did I say that? Second, if you actually have an answer to that question, please take it to PM or a tangential thread so that this thread may continue in relative peace.

I was responding to someone who posted incorrect information. You did not have to chime in with your incorrect info.

This is shameless baiting, Mike - that's beneath you.

[silvertrombone]

Well it was that way last year and 4000 PEOPLE combined showed up for a week of D2/3 performances. For all the people who claim to love and support the lower divisions the best place to start is by being there in the stands when they hit the field.

Cool. That was a week's worth of activities and shows. How many will be at my home show here in Dallas? And who wants to drive down to Rhode Island when the 'Big Corps' are all in the Boston area? I'm talking about everyone performing in the same place--top to bottom, everyone gets the 'same' experience. Calm down, I'm not attacking you.

Actually, the CORPS themselves need to take the lead on this stuff. DCI was founded by corps who wanted to take control of their competitive futures. So why the hell can't the corps do this in 2007 and take control of the situation?

Founded and has become are two different things. There really weren't 6 dominant corps back then. Certainly not that few. It has grown into a 6-horse race, basically. And none of those 6 has less that 150 members. One corps taking a new path won't really have that much impact. Where the 6 go, so goes the activity.

Requiring people to march in a place they "don't want to" isn't a realistic solution. However, if there were a regional circuit created which was affordable, and allowed kids to WORK while they marched then perhaps they would consider "cutting their teeth" in a lower corps before progressing to a top corps. So you're a rook-out? Well, that's a #### shame. I honestly doubt that anyone who actually REALLY wanted to march corps would skip their only opportunity to do so simply because they weren't allowed to do so.

Furthermore, I think most people here can remember a time when the rules were significantly different. Now, these rules are common place and aren't even questioned by today's marching members. This rule would take two-three years to become just another part of DCI.

The key issue which affects DCI as a whole, across all fronts is parity. No offense to the bottom corps (I marched one) but the fans are showing up to see the top six at most shows. Lay fans are especially turned off by poor playing, drill, or execution. The lack of parity in DCI creates problems on all fronts. From a marketing standpoint it's hard to sell tickets in an evironment where there is either no, or one big corps coming to town. If all corps were moderately equal then marketing the corps would become significantly easier (and shows).

Total financial parity would also help. I believe that all corps should pay a certain percentage of their intake into a fund that would help to stablize all corps during hard financial times. This fund could be run as an endowment for DCI. I also think that DCI, in conjunction with the corps, members, etc, should work to establish an endowment fund to ensure the future of DCI.

The issue is that only the top 6 corps have enough pull to fill their corps every year. The bottom corps ALWAYS struggle to find enough marching members. The competitive system is seriously dysfunctional. I beleive the scoring system works but it's vastly tilted towards keeping the top corps on top, and the bottom corps on the bottom.

With parity in most of the major sports leagues also came a (shocker) increase in viewership and fan participation (also a shocker). Perhaps DCI should learn from these leagues.

I do not believe that forcing someone to march somewhere they don't want to march will help. However, if we could make most corps equally desireable as a place to march perhaps kids wouldn't be spending thousands to fly across the country and march BD?

I also think establishing a regional show alliance would aid in marketing. For instance when a big musical act comes to a state (or province) all of their concert dates are advertised on the radio. Aka, if a band is playing Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, all of those dates are aired on the radio stations sponsoring said concert. Perhaps DCI could invest in similar radio advertising with show sponsors. Especially with shows in states where there is a regional. Perhaps split the cost with show organizers? Aka, advertise all the dates leading up to the regional and the regional itself.

Anyway, this post is terribly structured and mostly just a jumble of thoughts I've had over the past few weeks. Really, I think the only way for DCI to move forward as an activity and organization is to achieve some form of meaningful competitive parity. Until then, DCI will only appeal to a limited market, and the overall number of corps/participation in corps will continue to dwindle.

Just in cast you all missed this genius' post (being serious!) on the previous page, take another gander. Simple ideas are expressed with few words and this guy used LOTS of words!

I LOVE YOU MAN! But you still can't have my Shiner Bock.

[Meaghatron]

I just remembered something about Teal Sound... When I was in marching band, I would almost always see a Teal Sound booth at every competition. They had tons of information and would always try to get band kids to come over and hear what they have to say. I was just wondering, are there any other smaller Div. 1 or Div. II/III corps that do this?

[EKBari]

Cool. That was a week's worth of activities and shows. How many will be at my home show here in Dallas? And who wants to drive down to Rhode Island when the 'Big Corps' are all in the Boston area? I'm talking about everyone performing in the same place--top to bottom, everyone gets the 'same' experience. Calm down, I'm not attacking you.

They were in the same stadium last year. So there was no need for the extra travel, and 4000 people attended for the week. That's my point, while you may have been unable to attend yourself, there were still plenty of people in Madison who did not show up at Camp Randall Stadium when D2/3 performed.

[frontline99]

Yes, Top 12 are DCIs money maker but unless you have Bill Cooks wallet it's next to impossible to create a Finalist corps from scratch.

Well, for starters, Bill Cook's wallet alone did not get Star into finals. I can't believe people still say this 20 years later. Why are we complaining that someone with money supported an activity we love?

Even though it is not DCI's responsibility to keep the corps running, isn't it in their best interest? DCI absolutely needs to put together a task force to investigate new means of funding drum corps. Bingo is on it's way out. In 10 years I doubt if anyone will be able to turn a profit with it anymore. We need to follow Crown's example of alternative, business-oriented models for the long term.

Like I said before, you can't buy your way into finals. A lot of corps have tried and it has cost them their existence. That said, with a secure financial base, you can take your time, i.e. Academy, and grow. With time and security you can show potential members that you are there for the long haul and get them to return. This in turn leads to competitive sucess. The other advantage is that you can make it affordable for people to march. Nowadays $1,500 - $2000 is the norm. Most kids can't afford this.

So many people get caught up in the idea of having a div. I finalist corps right out of the gate, that they get ahead of themselves and go up in smoke very quickly. DCI needs to also putogether a timeline for start up corps to adhere to to prevent this blind dreaming and instant death of new corps.

[JazzmanSA80]

I just remembered something about Teal Sound... When I was in marching band, I would almost always see a Teal Sound booth at every competition. They had tons of information and would always try to get band kids to come over and hear what they have to say. I was just wondering, are there any other smaller Div. 1 or Div. II/III corps that do this?

Several do so in a more local sense. I know in high school, I used to see Carolina Crown information booths all over, as well as Carolina Gold (guess where I live?). I also know that Crown sets up a booth at the NC music educator's convention, and I'm sure they do so in SC and probably the other surrounding states.

Booths are great, and certainly nothing can replace being handed information on paper and speaking to a staff member, but the internet is still there, and REALLY needs to be better utilized. Really.