Replacing Our Losses in Corps Numbers

[bawker]

One thing that might help is to get rid of the II/III concept altogether....amd just have one smaller class, like DCA: Class A.

The first year this is instituted, you have a choice of staying in the new "Class A", or going ahead and going into the Division I/"Open" Class regional touring model. Over the off-season, DCI works with your corps to make sure touring isn't going to be too much, and schedules accordingly.

If you win Class A, you are forced move up into a regional DCI Division I tour the next year...and, again, DCI works with you to make sure it's not too much of a financial burden even up to (gasp!) giving the little guys loans if need be.

Going a step further...you could even have Open-class regionals with just the regional Div I/Open Class corps up until July 4th, and then later in the season, you can have the full tour "Super Regionals".

"Regional West"

Academy

Pac Crest

BDB

SCVC

Esperanza (when they return)

"Super Regional West" adds BD, SCV, Blue Knights and Cascades later on in the season.

Some corps that get in a tight spot from trying to restart or compete now could take it a little easier by competing in more localized regionals: Pioneer, Kiwanis, Cap Reg, Magic, Troop and so on.

Eventually, there may be fewer "Class A" Corps, but the off set is all the new "regional Open Class" corps....all of which get paid Division I appearance fees (yay for more $$$$), get to go to the big dance together and compete against each other (no more wondering if the best smaller corps could beat a larger rival and creating a glass ceiling for the smaller units.) and hopefully the activity wins in the process. :)

Edited June 25, 2007 by bawker

[silvertrombone]

Requiring people to march in places they don't want to march is not, IMO, a realistic solution.

You were more diplomatic about stating your disagreement. Thank you.

One thing that might help is to get rid of the II/III concept altogether....amd just have one smaller class, like DCA: Class A.

Aha, someone else picks up on the thought!

I would not be against this either. And your regional/sub-regional concept is pretty well thought out. LOTS of details to work out, but small thoughts are expressed with few words, and yours had some words to it. Good input, good ideas.

And remember, guys--I'm not OP!

[JimF-LowBari]

Because you are looking at this backwards. Yes, it would be great if more of the cuts migrated to a local II/III corps in their area. However, a lot of likds are no looking to "march drum corps"....they are looking to "march Cavies"...."march Cadets"...."march Blue Devils"....etc. There is nothing wrong with that either, IMO. It's their time and $$$ to invest as they wish.

IMO, some of this comes from the "if you can't be with the best, then it ain't worth it" mentality shown all too often in society today. In DCIs case (again IMO) the fact that Div II/III is totally ignored when shooting for the target audience with the ESPN telecast gives the same impression. A person who knows nothing about corps might think that Div II/III is useless since it isn't even mentioned in a blurb. I'd like to see if a throwaway line of "Like what you see but don't feel like you're ready? Here's an idea.... <insert Div II/III blurb>".

[JimF-LowBari]

How has any key brass been a financial strain? Many corps that have started out since the change have fielded because they could use Bb brass that was

borrowed from band programs.

Also known as "some members could bring their own horns" which was the only reason for Bb that I actually liked. The question is: What new corps actually did this when they started?

[silvertrombone]

IMO, some of this comes from the "if you can't be with the best, then it ain't worth it" mentality shown all too often in society today. In DCIs case (again IMO) the fact that Div II/III is totally ignored when shooting for the target audience with the ESPN telecast gives the same impression. A person who knows nothing about corps might think that Div II/III is useless since it isn't even mentioned in a blurb. I'd like to see if a throwaway line of "Like what you see but don't feel like you're ready? Here's an idea.... <insert Div II/III blurb>".

Another great suggestion, from the OP. And a common theme emerges--DCI needs to take the lead on this stuff.

[JimF-LowBari]

Another great suggestion, from the OP. And a common theme emerges--DCI needs to take the lead on this stuff.

*Blush* :P We must agree because I have a silver trombone (from the 1920s) in the cellar. :)

Another thing that DCA tried which turned out to be a good idea was to have a combined Class A/Open Finals Sunday night. Top three Class A (smaller) corps start Finals followed by top 10 Open corps. Not everyone wants to see the smaller corps but many folks in the "captive" audience never realized that the smaller corps could be that entertaining. Lot of Class A fans were created that way.

Edited June 25, 2007 by JimF-3rdBari

[EKBari]

GREAT point! Didn't used to be that way. I think 94 was the first year this split like you mentioned. Nothing like fostering "elitism" than by putting smaller corps in smaller venues. I have NO problem having D2/3 finals in the big stadiums. What a thrill! No more "Pocono HS Stadium" prelim/finals. Great point.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but DCI has the big venues pretty much the entire day, no? Even if D2/3 stuff is during the day and D1 is at night I'd be for it. Further incentive to do D2/3 and feel "equal."

Well it was that way last year and 4000 PEOPLE combined showed up for a week of D2/3 performances. For all the people who claim to love and support the lower divisions the best place to start is by being there in the stands when they hit the field.

Edited June 25, 2007 by EKBari

[EKBari]

Another great suggestion, from the OP. And a common theme emerges--DCI needs to take the lead on this stuff.

Actually, the CORPS themselves need to take the lead on this stuff. DCI was founded by corps who wanted to take control of their competitive futures. So why the hell can't the corps do this in 2007 and take control of the situation?

[Liam]

Well it was that way last year and 4000 PEOPLE combined showed up for a week of D2/3 performances. For all the people who claim to love and support the lower divisions the best place to start is by being there in the stands when they hit the field.

True -- but if the D2/3s were allowed to compete in Quarters on Thurs , even if it only 2 or 3 of them, some folks may have been exposed to the fact that the quality is worth checking out on Sat morn. Maybe not right away, but over time that would have to have a positive impact on the D2/3 crowds during Championship week.

BTW -- what is the plan for D2/3s in Indy the next 10 years, anybody know??? Same stadium or smaller venue??

Edited June 25, 2007 by Liam

[kksop17]

Well,

Requiring people to march in a place they "don't want to" isn't a realistic solution. However, if there were a regional circuit created which was affordable, and allowed kids to WORK while they marched then perhaps they would consider "cutting their teeth" in a lower corps before progressing to a top corps. So you're a rook-out? Well, that's a #### shame. I honestly doubt that anyone who actually REALLY wanted to march corps would skip their only opportunity to do so simply because they weren't allowed to do so.

Furthermore, I think most people here can remember a time when the rules were significantly different. Now, these rules are common place and aren't even questioned by today's marching members. This rule would take two-three years to become just another part of DCI.

The key issue which affects DCI as a whole, across all fronts is parity. No offense to the bottom corps (I marched one) but the fans are showing up to see the top six at most shows. Lay fans are especially turned off by poor playing, drill, or execution. The lack of parity in DCI creates problems on all fronts. From a marketing standpoint it's hard to sell tickets in an evironment where there is either no, or one big corps coming to town. If all corps were moderately equal then marketing the corps would become significantly easier (and shows).

Total financial parity would also help. I believe that all corps should pay a certain percentage of their intake into a fund that would help to stablize all corps during hard financial times. This fund could be run as an endowment for DCI. I also think that DCI, in conjunction with the corps, members, etc, should work to establish an endowment fund to ensure the future of DCI.

The issue is that only the top 6 corps have enough pull to fill their corps every year. The bottom corps ALWAYS struggle to find enough marching members. The competitive system is seriously dysfunctional. I beleive the scoring system works but it's vastly tilted towards keeping the top corps on top, and the bottom corps on the bottom.

With parity in most of the major sports leagues also came a (shocker) increase in viewership and fan participation (also a shocker). Perhaps DCI should learn from these leagues.

I do not believe that forcing someone to march somewhere they don't want to march will help. However, if we could make most corps equally desireable as a place to march perhaps kids wouldn't be spending thousands to fly across the country and march BD?

I also think establishing a regional show alliance would aid in marketing. For instance when a big musical act comes to a state (or province) all of their concert dates are advertised on the radio. Aka, if a band is playing Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, all of those dates are aired on the radio stations sponsoring said concert. Perhaps DCI could invest in similar radio advertising with show sponsors. Especially with shows in states where there is a regional. Perhaps split the cost with show organizers? Aka, advertise all the dates leading up to the regional and the regional itself.

Anyway, this post is terribly structured and mostly just a jumble of thoughts I've had over the past few weeks. Really, I think the only way for DCI to move forward as an activity and organization is to achieve some form of meaningful competitive parity. Until then, DCI will only appeal to a limited market, and the overall number of corps/participation in corps will continue to dwindle.

Edited June 25, 2007 by kksop17