Sideways Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If you can dodge an axe, you can dodge a snare line 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I've yet to see a single drum-corps mission statement that concerns itself with the audience in the stands. "The Blue Devils share the mission of BD Performing Arts: to permanently enrich the lives of young people through a commitment to youth development and performance excellence while providing enjoyment for our local community and audiences worldwide." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) I have no doubt it improved the safety of the members. Here's something else that would improve their safety: Elminate the color guard. Make backward movements illegal. Or cancel the whole event. That would make them safer. So we should do it, right? The real question is whether it improves their safety enough to justify giving the members inferior judging to what they get now. Or, maybe the judging is no worse when the judges are on the sideline? I suppose the judges might say so, and the members and staff might agree, but until I see evidence, consider me skeptical. I am willing to be proven wrong, but I can't conceive of how putting more distance between performer and judge does anything but diminish the quality of the judging, with the inevitable cascading effect that music will be flattened out, simplified, dumbed down, and generally less appealing to both crowd and marching member, all to the detriment of DCI . So we have a undoubted gain in safety opposed to a probable loss in judging quality. How do these values compare to each other, and how much change would each experience? That's where you make the decision. Your first statement isn't worth replying to. I get your point, but whatever. That said... I'm not convinced that there is inferior judging with judges off the field. Obviously, we only really have DCA to use as a comparison (though I suppose we could point to some marching band circuits). As a member of the brass staff of a DCA corps, I feel that if there is only one judge in a caption, he should be in the box. In DCA we still get execution commentary (and some may argue too much execution commentary) with the judge upstairs. I can't and won't speak for the percussion tapes (I never listen to them, only brass, music ensemble and GE), but I do know that our percussion guys and my percussion instructor friends in other corps were mostly happy with the move of the lone drum judge to the box. I sincerely believe we gained more in the judge observing and commenting on the percussion ensemble as a whole than we might have lost with him up close judging individuals and small group samples. It's absolutely a more musical, if possibly less technically detailed approach. Some may not like it, but I certainly do. I know that with Cabs, we "dumbed down" nothing as a result of the judge location changes, and I doubt any of the other DCA corps did either. I do think we're likely to take more risks, in fact. I know we watered a lot less than the corps did in the past. Granted, this is one year of active participation on my part, listening to tapes and talking to judges. I'll be happy to relate what we see/hear in 2016 when we hit the summer. Incidentally, it drives me crazy that the Jim Ott Award for the best brass ensemble in DCI is judged *only* from the field. I hate it. I detest i, and I suspect Jim likely would as well. I'd rather have seen a proposal to include a brass judge in the box like DCI does with percussion, or if not that, move the one we have now upstairs. Edited January 13, 2016 by Kamarag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yes it's quality jeff. Its like saying the winning guard had a drop in todays demanding shows, so what. Now if it's a consistent thing or pretty much a mess of course not. One can certainly see if something is random or a hot mess( you have said it yourself many times ). A hot mess certainly has not been IMO in those top spots. Well that's not totally true I can go back to shows some very old, many revere as the best of the best and find those same things you mention. Noone is saying details are not important ( it's also how we clean ) BUT if judges are as trained as they claim ,,do you need to be a few feet away and if one does have to to find a mistake to a detail is that a little crazy. This is just my opinion, ( well not really just me ) but as I said over and over IF you guys decide this is what it takes to make your line better and need that to do it, then so be it . Put more judges on the field if you need it. Again, I did say if you guys want this to stay OR to go ,the percussion people will decide this and I am more than happy to support it. I think the debate should go to other drummers like one above who felt differently. Those differences or those who will agree within the activity ultimately will decide which way it goes. As far as making it easier, i do not believe for one second that writer or designers will make it easier , especially for those top lines. If there are staff that do not challenge, ( smartly ) or dont look at their own program for growth then time for some new staff. I'm actually a little surprised that getting to know you these past few years that you yourself believe Harder is always better. IMO bigger ,harder, louder does not mean better. I do believe you also believe this BUT you are very strong on the field judge thing and that's more than ok. You are in the activity, in the percussion arena, so all I can say is hope your piers feel the same. Maybe I just have more faith in some of the great drum staffs i have had the honor of working with or knowing, that the quality and attention to detail would continue with or without big brother in their face. Maybe you are right though. Either way ( as I said ) it's up to you guys and Im very much ok with that. if you are trying to find the cause of issues with a percussion section, being in a skybox is not going to give you the sight options needed to correct it. When you are hauling ### and say you have 9 snares to choose from, there is very little chance as fast as the hands move today you can spot it upstairs. YOu can guess, but trying to pinpoint it is futile. And being able to see and diagnose up close is a large part of what percussion judges do. They may not call the kid out on tape, but it will get passed to staff. Also, with the crazy and ever evolving stickings used, each of which have their own demands and challenges, you won't be able to tell and credit from the box. if you want the upstairs perspective, the holistic view as a few want, then Feidlers proposal gets the best of both worlds, and how it should have stayed. people here have tried to compare DCI to WGI, but you really can't. So many different factors are involved, it's aircraft carriers vs tricycles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 It's a performance activity. The judges are distracting and frankly dangerous running all over the field. Perceptive audience members can easily spot ensemble issues, clean vs. dirty snare and bass lines - and most importantly EFFECTIVE performances and arrangements. JMO - the folks running around the field should have been gone LONG ago. they may be able to tell dirty...but from the 500 level, can a judge diagnose why? no 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Ah, so this is a DCA-inspired move. Did not know that. Did the removal of the judges from the field improve the safety of marching members? Were the crowds happier because judges no longer were cluttering up the field? (those are the stated justifications for the proposal to DCI) I see more fans complaining about what they see corps getting away with in terms of sloppiness at an individual level 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Which leads to the base question what is the purpose of the Rules Congress? -to correct problems by clarifying and re-developing the rules? -to shift the activity into different directions? -to appease the various personalities of the DCI executives, corps admins, and corps faculties? -to provide a better experience for the MMs and a better product for their fans and interested parties? -to adjust the activity to whatever the sponsoring manufacturers are pushing this season (new unis, new instruments, more fabric, more props, for example.) many of the proposals put forth do a lot to clarify and improve things. Just not removing the field judges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I will say judging percussion in a band circuit that removed the judge from the field, overall, when you do get up close, a drop in quality and demand has occurred. The little stuff is sweated only by the top few, and the same with the demands placed on the hands. it's become about the big picture, i.e. not hurting the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) "The Blue Devils share the mission of BD Performing Arts: to permanently enrich the lives of young people through a commitment to youth development and performance excellence while providing enjoyment for our local community and audiences worldwide." Like I said: It doesn't concern itself with the audience, at least not primarily. It is focused first on enriching the lives of young people. That's the mission. Performing arts is the means to that end. It's the method, not the purpose. You're starting a drum corps. What do you do first? Sell tickets? Or recruit the members? It starts with the kids because it's about the kids. All aspects of the activity, including judging, should be determined with their interests in mind first. If the kids love the activity, if they think it's worth their summer and their money and they give everything they have to it because they like what it does for them, the stands (almost) automatically will be filled with people. Edited January 13, 2016 by 2muchcoffeeman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) if you are trying to find the cause of issues with a percussion section, being in a skybox is not going to give you the sight options needed to correct it. When you are hauling ### and say you have 9 snares to choose from, there is very little chance as fast as the hands move today you can spot it upstairs. YOu can guess, but trying to pinpoint it is futile. And being able to see and diagnose up close is a large part of what percussion judges do. They may not call the kid out on tape, but it will get passed to staff. Also, with the crazy and ever evolving stickings used, each of which have their own demands and challenges, you won't be able to tell and credit from the box. if you want the upstairs perspective, the holistic view as a few want, then Feidlers proposal gets the best of both worlds, and how it should have stayed. people here have tried to compare DCI to WGI, but you really can't. So many different factors are involved, it's aircraft carriers vs tricycles. Are we talking about the skybox or sidelines? Two very different things. I think there are both views reading back. Either way, I'm not the one to convince. I support whatever you guys decide, It's those within the percussion or music community with possible differences of opinion that need convincing...either way Edited January 13, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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