Dmlkmen

Ditto. They brought it with that performance. Bring it home California!

I have had an epiphany, so to speak, since that last post you quoted. I don't view Cadets2 as unethical as I once did. The negative impact to DCI Open Class and unfair advantage in DCA I thought, has changed. I had a good talk with a friend and also have been reading this thread, and have since changed views. What began to make sense to me was simply the obvious. DCI Open Class in the region that Cadets2 exist, is much more dominated by DCA. The Garden State Circuit was wonderful for its time. I loved going to those shows circa 1990's. I had hoped to one day have it back. But times being what they are, I appreciate the fact that DCA is there in the region to fill the void. And this is not to say Surf, Raiders, Spartans etc...those corps who used to do GSC will suffer because Cadets2 are going DCA. True, the corps could have helped anchor some great DCI Open Class shows. But those shows seem to be doing OK as they are. Plus, with the DCI/DCA marketing agreement, maybe we will get a show like Hershey was. I would fly back east from Denver, to see that show. The West Coast has a great, great thing in the number of DCI Open Class corps. I say it often, having Finals at the Rose Bowl did so much for the creation of corps in California, particularly for adding more alumni groups- as well as raising interest in Renegades and Dream. Many of my friends in Kingsmen Alumni got their competitive fire lit again, and went onto march Dream, Renegades, Kingsmen Sr., Freelancers, etc. In comparison, what the Rose Bowl was for us, is what Rochester and now Annapolis has been and will be for new corps and participants. It's not DCI. But anything that influences corps activity, regardless of circuit, you can't discount how positive it is. As for age, drill , practice time.... I can see where Ed Mason is coming from, most of the time. (Age/ physical demand/ drill changing in DCA). I know It has become a reason some will or won't march. Or they may march and expect one thing in what their corps will do visually, but find it difficult to adapt to a new visual philosophy. I don't doubt the Cadets2 will push the envelope in drill, just as their elder brothers did in the 80's and continue to do. But the argument it will push out the "older guys"- I am not totally buying into it. The Reason : Sure, in the 80s, Cadets were ushering in a visual evolution. But other corps did find ways to be competitive and win. Whether it was a different perspective to visual (staging vs. a run and gun drill) or strengthening their percussion and brass- corps still came out and gave them a challenge. I see it the same way with DCA. There are other ways to win and still be competitive other than just a phenomenal drill. Perhaps with the entertainment aspect being important in score, high demand in drill won't be the benchmark, but rather part of the equatialso There is also the strengths of corps that vary year by year....all the necessary factors have to come together to make it. My change of opinion 0.2 cents. I look forward to seeing Cadets2 next year.

Looks like Laguardia, JFK, and Newark were spared from what I am seeing on CNN. For those of us flying in next weekend, this was somewhat of a concern. I see Northwest New York is getting pounded by rain, and thats not good news. How is the Rochester area doing right now?

What is the significance if a Class A beats an Open in prelims and Finals ? My understanding of prelims is that it's all corps competing against each other, even though A takes the Top 4 and Open the Top 10 move onto Sunday. So what does it mean, hypothetically, if two Class A score 10th and 9th overall in prelims. Does this mean; 1.The two Class A's take the Open Class performance slots of the Open Class corps who were beat? 2. 5th and 6rh place Class A's from Saturday, bump up to Class A 3rd, 4th which enables them to perform on Sunday? 3.The two Open Class corps who were not in the Top 10 overall..Are they knocked out of a Sunday performance? If schedule on Sunday has nothing to do with it....does the Class A beating Open Class "have it's legs" in the fact they they get voting rights? Or is it simply a bragging rights thing, and Open Class Top 10 get all the voting rights? Whats the correct answer?

If you want to start a corps, but first want to join, I would recommend joining Shenandoah Sound. some people have issues and won't join a Class A. And that's fine. But you seem to be a different animal. You mention Reading, but in terms of programs or helping a corps grow, realizing that process, and going through it- all things which you will need to know if you are starting a corps- I would highly recommend joining a Class A. And don't just march with them. See if you can get on their board, or be their recruiting rep etc. This will probably be better than any book or intangible that you will ever have. you will develop contacts. you will meet drill designers, music arrangers, etc, that might be able to make recommendations on your staff, when you are ready to start. In starting your program, (when you are ready)...see if you can first start a mini corps with the contacts you have made. Some of these guys may be " just playing to play" in local community bands or in a music classes at NOVA or GMU. Having an outlet where it's all brass, and they have the opportunity to just e their own rockstars, is an attractive recruiting tool.You can form your group, and possibly take a trip to Annapolis your first year out. The guys will likely have their own horns (sans " marching" horns)- but for mellos, bar is, and contras- see if there is a way you can borrow.Or go the Ebay route for your mini corps. Why start as a mini corps? Think of it as a test market, and less financial risk. It is also a great way to build a corps. From the mini corps, you will build a core dedicated group.Whether they want to be movable objects on a field or not....that may be your challenge. But, if they are buying your program to join the mini corps, make sure they understand your intention is to grow the group into an actual all age corps. after first achieving recognition in the mini corps world. From your mini corps, you may have the idea of whether or not you want to stay a mini corps, or actually start a DCA competitive group.This could happen to. Dont rule it out. There are many other things to consider. But I will leave it at this. Thanks for wanting to start a corps in VA.

Wendy, to add more irony, I grew up in Virginia. Good luck next week. Bring it home California.

I didn't feel it In Denver. I think it was centered south of here. There was damage to buildings in a few towns.

There was an earthquake In Colorado yesterday as well. Did noticable damage in some areas. It was above 5, but I didn't feel it here in Denver.

1991....and from then on, they have always been one of my favorites. I joke a lot with freinds that they are the official cover band to the Pat Metheny Group. Specifically the album "Still Life Talking". It is that jazz style, (I dont know if you call it World Beat, or Brazillian Jazz), that they seem to own in their identity. If I could make a request for "music corps should do"- I would love to see them do a retro show (something like Madison 2010), and put out a 1991 redo. Have Minuano and an addition, "Its Just Talk"- It would probably become my favorite show of all time. And you cant leave out elements of that 91 drum solo. I loved this year. I became a fan of Nando Lauria because of it. The press announcement about the show in February was awesome. That was great for them to come out and say, simply, "this is what we are here to do, and this is how we are doing it". Chuck Naffier's posts, (post show announcement), were also some of the best I have ever read on this site. The only downfall of this season, was that it sucked that they could niot have full treatment in the theater broadcast, due to placement. Hopefully next year, the momentum builds for them to take a run at the Top 12. BTW, I have socured Youtube for a Bones sighting this year... were there any?

It is good to see kids such as yourself, enjoying Virginia's corps. I saw your corps once, as I watched from the "tunnel" (so to speak) in Rochester last year. SS went on right before SoCal Dream. I was extremely happy to see a corps from the place I grew up, competing, I grew up in Fairfax County and marched HS there in the early 90s,. I wish I had a corps to march nearby at the time. 'Many of us went north to Cadets. And Crossmen...some to Bluecoats to get our jonz. But now you have a chance to march close to home...and that is a very cool thing. I want to see Shenandoah Sound grow and do well. Your corps has a lot of talent to draw from,,and hopefully the word of mouth about the corps spreads. Particularly now that Finals will essentially be in your backyard in Annapolis. Good Luck this year and continued representing of an area long overdue for corps...

I dont mean to drop names here, but without them, I wouldnt know what this activity is. So, I want to pay homage to them. Jeff Wrobleski, Tim "Shorty" Bartholomen, Corky Fabrizio, and the drum major of the Bluecoats from 89-91- I know his first name was Chip. They helped my marching band in Virginia, during the late 80's early 90's. The first moment I noticed anything about corps, was during my freshmen year. We had our away band camp somewhere out in West Virginia. My first run in with anything corps was when I noticed Shorty playing against the side of a hill (or was it a mountain?), and getting the reverb of the High Double C's he was playing bouncing off the side. My friends and I were amazed, as we were Baritone players, and just starting to get into jazz and the like-so Shorty was like, "the dude". He had a G soprano with 2 valves, and we were further amazed that a horn could be made without a 3rd valve. From there, we would have sectionals with either Shorty or Corky durinmg camp, or when we would host our home show in October and they came to judge. They mixed in great instruction with stories about corps- particularly Shorty with Cadets. Those were beyond "good times" in those sectionals. We in the brass line often viewed it as "extrememly focused" instruction. Jeff brought in a lot of flags and even the Golden Coins from the Star shows, to our camps. We used them in our shows- but it was often we heard Jeff talk about as this "great effect"...For about 2 years from freshmen to junior year, I had no idea Jeff worked with Star. That was until I saw Jeff jumping up and down at the closer of Star 90, when the camera pans in on the DM. I do remember Jeff bringing in a marching instruction book, that was used by Star of Indiana. It showed exact foot height with diagrams, as well as diagrams of proper ste size. It was like Bruce Lee's Kung Fu book- but for marching. The first video I saw was Garfield 1985.... But I had no idea of whether that was a drum corps or "super" marching band. We were watching it because our show in 1991 included Make our Garden Grow, and Candide. Our band director mixed that show in with 1988 BOA Marion Catholic, so most of us thought it was a natural extension of band. It was Chip who pulled me a few friends aside, and introduced me to my first video of corps through the video of Bluecoats 89 and 90. Chip was our low brass tech-and overall a great dude. We also saw 1988 and 1989, and hyped BD 88 whenever we went to shows- all introduced through Chip. It was 1990 when I attended my first shows- Allentown and Hershey. Saw Star, and sat in on their Lot. To this day, one of my favorite drum corps moments ever. Hearing Praise Ye in the lot. 1991, I expanded that DCI East- where I saw Crossmen overtake Cadets...which at the time, was like Wow! Cadets with their marching and drill, was a corps my firends and I put on a pedestal. But, as it turned out..that was a #### good Crossmen corps. From there everything was gravy from being fan, to marcher, to fan, then back again. Going on my 22nd year of following the activity....

2011- The best Top 12 for entertaining shows since the 1988-1993 era. Although, in my opinion, 1992 holds a slight edge in best Top 12 of all time.

-I see it a couple ways. 1. 16-22's coming to participate/ audition in Cadets1 "Experience Camps", and early season December and January might be given the option to participate in Cadets 2. Also If it's deemed in auditions they cannot make Cadets 1, they may have an immediate hole to fill in Cadets2. If I read numbers correctly, Cadets get around 300 kids to come out to these early season camps? So imagine....300 kids to recruit to Cadets2...Wow. How many of us would love to have an Open House that 300 showed up to? 2. I think Boccok does the hornbook for Reading? Also, Cipriani, and Saktig assist on staff or work with Reading? Will they continue to work with Reading if they decide to caption or staff Cadets2? 3. how many 16-22's do Reading, Hawthorne, Windsor, Fusion, Cabs, Bush, and Hurcs have right now...that are there to gain experience with these corps, to march World Class corps when they turn 17 or 18? If the opportunity to fill a hole became apparent in Cadets 2, would they view it as their opportunity to gain that experience for that dream corps? 3A. I see Jersey Surf looking at this issue more than anyone else. 3B. Making a comparison to 3: In Atlanta, Will Alliance and Corpsvets experience membership drops with Spirit back in town? 4. II think with the age group, Cadets2 may find it productive to be practicing more than just Saturdays and Sundays during the summer. To a kid who may want a corps experience, and be everyday with his friends, but without the tour and gyms, this is attractive.

I agree the brass sound is expansive, and deserving of the kudos from fans. I think having spring training and winter camps at 5300 to 6000 foot elevation might have something to do with that.

I see you are of the opinion like many others here...(including some members in corps) that DCI sanctioned shows have inaccurate judging. I think this got proven more this week, Alliance's 10 point jump in one week between circuits is a headline I am surprised more people are not commenting about. I don't think its conspiracy or theory anymore. It seems DCI judges are looking more for cleanliness, and are much more strict on flaws...How else to explain the low scores? Is it possible that these may be unreasonable expectations for weekend only corps? Maybe DCA needs to consult their DCI judges about possibly changing this bias. Also, maybe it's time Directors start mentioning this issue at the winter meetings. If we see these tremendous jumps in score between the circuits in the course of a week, what's the benefit of going to DCI shows? Where is the credibility for DCI if corps know they are going to score 8 or 9 points higher the following week at a DCA show? Should DCI shows then be exhibitions? It would seem to me, the more complaints occurring, the more that the issue needs to be brought to the forefront. I write a lot with a West Coast bias....but its a catch 22 for those corps if they complain. There is not a choice for them. I also think of potential corps who may want to start a corps in Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Nevada...etc,..does this in some ways, hinder expansion?

As defined in the DCI era only. I realize some of these corps had success and well established definition prior to DCI. Cavaliers 1990- They were already placing in the Top 6 well before this. But it was this year, where I think it all came together, and they were title contenders. Particularly in their drill design/visual and battery/front Ensemble.....trademarks, I believe, of the modern Cavaliers. I think overall, this was the year that people finally started thinking of them as setting the benchmark for visual design along with Star and Cadets. Crossmen 1991- This show beat the Cadets of Bergen County to claim DCI East. It also came close to beating or tying the Blue Devils.. It was only 2 years prior that they had gotten back into the Top 12. But more importantly it was the head bobbing- grooving battery and the colorful arranging from Pat Methany's "Still Life Talking" album. This to me is what I think of when I think Crossmen. Cadets 1985- I think this show brought in the start of modern drill design. For the Cadets, I think this is where music is movement started. 84 was a benchmark in it's own way-But 85 was where visual and movement matching the music, began. Santa Clara Vanguard 1974- This corps is tough. You can go with the Fiddler years, including 92, which brought it all together. 1989....Nuff Said. there are a lot years to choose and I would agree most define the corps. But when I think of "Clowns", and it's meaning, I think of this year. When I think of the term Vanguard, and what Key Poulain said where the corps has a history of bringing new music or challenging music to the activity- To me that piece is "Young Persons". This show was also the first time DCI had a televised champion, and they were the first. Bluecoats 1987- I love "turn the corner" stories, particularly on drum corps. I think this one was Bluecoats year. Autumn Leaves...stands out so much from this show. I have also heard stories about the horn line from that year, and how it enthralled people to think, "Wow, these guys are for real." Carolina Crown 1995 & 2005- One year marked their entrance to the Top 12. I remember a friend marching in 95, and the feeling that was making Top 12 he said he had. The other (2005)i to me is where the brass sound began. More: 1976 Blue Devils, 1993 Colts, 2006 Academy, 1994 Pioneer

It was interesting to read Boo's article about the show. Of note, I didn't realize that it had a hard time catching on with the fans at first. I saw it late season in Virginia. The crowd threw their babies for it. At the time, I thought it was one of the best shows I had ever seen. I see it today as one of the most intense performances of any corps.

Ballsy Comment. But I appreciate the brutal honesty to your feeling about it. There were times when I competed on the West Coast, that I thought the same thing...However, consensus among the corps was that "we didnt have time to bleed". If we were to continuously ##### about DCiI judging, it wouldnt have any bearing to the overall goal. The 6 week layoff, and that mid July score for seeding- usually makes us first on and near last place for seeding. Realizing that, the attitude became one where we focused on coming into prelims, ready to go balls out, Just wanted to give you a different perspective of looking at what happend last Saturday. Good luck next week, and the rest of the season.

Ditto. Hopefully more will want to share their stories, I like reading threads like this.

I came into being a fan and knowing about drum corps somewhere around 89 I was 13 at the time. I was introduced to drum corps through the Top 12 corps of 1988, via the finals VHS tape. was on the east coast in Northern Virginia, about as far away from the Influence of the West Coast as possible, But seeing VK, BD, and SCV in that video, It was incredible. While Garfield was huge for my education in marching and playing, (instructors from Garfield Cadets and Star with my HS)... my friends and I loved BD 88, 89, and 91. Those years were the soundtrack for our hype before our big BOA shows. 88 BD remains my second favorite show to this day....Slightly behind Star 90...But will say it gets more airplay in my car, more than any other show. I was at a show in Pittsburgh during the 1994 season: North Allegheny HS....The snare drum moment at the end of Day Danse as the block comes around...sopranos hanging out on High C's while snares are just kicking ###.....that whole show is still my favorite that I have ever seen live. The year before, in 93....seeing that performance live in Jackson after it rained.....horn Ine ....no words to describe it. Rondinaro did it best that year...."they were cookin" Fast forward about 20 years, and I arrive in California. I join up with Kingsmen Alumni, and I get a chance to meet many ex BD. Guys from the 70s and early 80s. A few from the late 80s. With the mass of people who marched that corps, I got a chance to hear many stories, and many things I had always wondered about, Shows I loved and grew up with, there were a few guys now marching next to me, who were in those shows. Post 07, marching with the all age corps of the West Coast- still continuing to march with many ex BD...but seeing BD up close now. Getting a chance to see Mars. Seeing them up close and practicing. I got a whole new perspective. it was funny to me see how the BD Lot is so laid back...the singing, the looseness... I was rather surprised by that. But it's cool to see that. Seeing BDB and BDC corps for the first time....I think there is some thought that BD is like the Mongolian horde of drum corps. Where hordes of awesome players with mad skills from all over the world come to just take over the competition ....but I realized through these corps just how family BD is. BDC will make anyone, even the grumpiest and most cynical of drum corps followers, smile. Lastly, love this years show. I am happy to say it's my favorite BD show since 88. I saw it live at DATR from about the 3rd row from the field. Now Phantom"s show with Elsa's left me searching for my face as it was blown off. But it was BD that left me fulfilled to my soul. The music and the arranging grabs me. Especially the ending reprise of House is Not Home. That moment is if BD of the 80s and 90s...and all great moments....came together and had a baby. True Story.... the end of the "Forever and Ever" piece.....(I cant remember the name of the piece, but I know those are the words).Anyway....I hear the field judge let out a remark "OMG WHOO...GREAT HORNLINE!!!!" into the judging tape. This was after the park and blow block...I got a chuckel from that,..cause it was my thoughts too.... So...true to the thread title....my ode to BD. Keep em coming guys. Will always be a fan....

I saw the ad on the Kingsmen Alumni site for the upcoming SDCA show on the 20th. Are the Kingsmen still going to be there?

Are you guys still looking to do the SDCA show on August 20? I have been looking for some info on the show, but haven't been able to find anything. Kingsmen have an ad for it, but that's all I have found.

Yes! And now that VK Alums are coming along, the west is growing. Kingsmen Alumni have a big ad on the website for their participation in the first SDCA So Cal show on August 20. I"ll ask in the VK alums thread if they will be there too..... Speaking of that show....do any of you all in this thread know the full lineup for that show? VK, Freelancers, and Kingsmen Alumni? Will they be there?

Bob, Great show this year! I heard the show was a crowd pleaser. The horn line although small, was definitely mighty. I saw the Walnut video and I thought I was listening to a line at least triple the size. (But we all know that is Thom's forte) Wish I could have stayed to play the show, as I know it would have been fun. I hope next year the big, loud, jazz theme is back, and I can see you guys taking the field in Anna's Polis. -David L.

Hopefully a DCA West regional can help this cause. I remember there being some talk of it...but since I am out of Cali now I have no idea if the talk is of continuing to develop a show. The gig Dream and Gades did at the Santa Monica pier in 2010, was where I heard it first discussed.