littlebirdy

same... been trying to get to the chat room with no avail

Whelp... music city just made a fan out of me

Corps shift all the time during Finals week. However, it's REALLY hard to shift placements over night. The corps stick aroudn for the age-out ceremony after Semis, and if their housing is far away, they have a bit of a drive back. After all that, they need plenty of sleep for the big day, meaning they have to wake up a little later than normal, cutting into their already short practice time. In short: It's really hard to get cleaner or gain GE in one day. It happens, especially if the sub-captions line up just right, and there are mistakes in the top corps, but its rare.

As for what Box 5 is (since I don't think anyone addressed it), just read the sheets. Box 5 basically just means that everyone is achieving the technique or effect equally. If one guy clearly is marching the wrong technique, you can't hit box 5. If a part of the show is completely underwhelming, you GE will suffer and you can't break into box 5. If members aren't playing the dynamics quite the same (i.e. a few mellos over crescendoing) you'll be stuck in box 4. Box 1: Completely different "x" (x being the term on the sheet) Box 2: Sometimes consistent "x" Box 3: Frequently consistent "x" Box 4: Usually consistent "x" Box 5: Always consistent "x" That's the simplest way I can think of defining it. You have to read the sheets to learn the "x", though. It could be dynamics, visual style, tempo, etc.

Don't tell anyone but I was talking to the design staff and they told me the title to next year's show: Breaking 100

@audiodb So for anyone reading this that didn't read his original post, he was asking for an example of a dcp member saying that the overwhelming majority of fans dislike BD's show. (Something I was happy this poll proved wrong). From the Houston Thread (where it was apparent that most people were doing their best to prevent flaming, so it looks like I might have to go farther back than a week lol): Definitely implies that the majority of the audience will dislike it. There is a lot to come from good ol' DCImonkey, but this post implies that its the majority of people disliking BD's show. This one is just saying that great shows are equally great on a video. Something the poll says otherwise. Can't confirm or deny this one. This about the people in the seats, something the majority of DCP was not. This basically just implies that the audience is not grooving on the show. And that may be true, but we can't measure that with this poll. That's just a very recent topic. People kept talking about trying not to be a hater and always prefacing their comments. It was obvious people were avoiding making general statements that could be taken the wrong way. If you want me to go farther back to when the hate was even more crazy, I could. The Denver topic probably has some good stuff.

It was on one of (probably Many aha) the show topics. I'd have to dig to find, so I'll get back to ya, but they were saying outright that the overwhelming majority of the audience disliked BD's show. Like I said, I'll dig and get back to you. Right after the statement was said, BD supporters got on the thread and the whole thing turned into a BD honk/hate fest.

Bumping in order to see if DCP really is proven wrong. Specific posters have been open about saying that the overwhelming majority of people dislike BD's show. At the time of this bump, the poll says: -The majority of people who saw it live, enjoyed it. -The majority of people who saw it over video didn't care either way. -14 people do not like the show in either type of viewing, whereas 23 enjoy it. 20 don't care. Pretty much a big upset to the people who adamantly believe that everyone dislikes the show.

It's called a meme. It's meant as a joke. http://knowyourmeme.com/

Edit: This isn't directed towards the messenger aha. Just a comment.

And they never will! Conspiracy, I say! The Atlanta dome will be filled with BP's trash oil so the show will be cancelled, and then Crown and BD's trucks will crash together on the way to Quarterfinals, creating a noise that will inspire BD 2011's show. This show will naturally go undefeated. O shoot.. I said too much!

Just to be clear, this is not at all an argument I'm starting. What I'm about to say is just my thought branching from yours. I don't think the Cavies will pass BD. It's been argued here that BD's weakness is music, and the best way to catch them would be musically. Unfortunately, it has also been said that the Cavies have weak music. Since BD has faced Cavies head to head and sweeped the captions, as long as they both progress in every caption, Cavies can't pass BD. I suppose Cavies could concentrate solely on upping their GE and see if that bleeds into the other captions, making their show overall strong enough to win. But, that is quite a risky bet. The $1.50 in my pocket is being bet on Coats. It's a long shot, with their history of losing momentum score-gain-wise in the last 2 weeks. However, their program is quite strong and in different areas than BD. Good luck to everyone, though! It's a good fight!

Check out the bold. That's where I really disagree. Since these comments likely relate to BD 2010 (though not necessarily aimed at), I'll use them as a reference. Ever hear the original City of Glass album. I HATE it. HATE. But BD's musical design (at least from my amateur ears) certainly mimicks and parallels the chaotic sound of the City of Glass album. I'd argue that this music follows the exact intent of the original composition. In fact, I'd argue that Stan Kenton might think BD's production too melodic. Edit: Took out that last little bit. Realized it wasn't along the lines of your argument. My bad. However, as you pointed out, the judges sheet does not indicate that factors have to be weighed equally. The judges weigh them as they see fit, and if the judges decide that the way they weigh it is best, then that's that. There's no arguing to be had. THe judge has the final say, and he isn't breaking a single rule in the sheets with his judging.

I was simply commenting on the OP/OT. Take some freakin' ritalin with your coffee

Didn't read all 5 pages. Just putting in my thoughts. Part of all 3: A) The Blue Devils are trained so well, that they are able to have a huge vocabulary of visual styles and movement. This year and last they decided to showcase this visual finesse in new and quirky ways. B) The other top 4 have great visual programs and are doing everything their staff asks of them. However BD is doing more. If, for instance, BD and Cadets were at the same show and marched at the same level, they wouldn't score equal because BD does both the marching and the other stuff. It's like saying two pies are equal, but if you pick the blue one, you get a doughtnut, too! C) Judging is subjective, but they follow guidelines. On their sheets, they look for certain things in order to assess them. BD seems to do everything the sheets ask, almost in a checklist style. They do literally EVERYTHING the judge could ask for. Very similar to part B. If the judge's sheets were different would they win? maybe, maybe not. As the judges define excellence and repertoire at this moment in time, BD has purposefully checked off every item on the list. If the Cadets or Cavaliers came out and undeniably outmarched BD, I am sure that BD would focus more on the standard marching. The fact they can go toe-to-toe with the other corps gives them the chance to throw more in the show. This was only about visual aha. I can't really comment on much else, since the other captions aren't my forte

And there's the hard part. Those guys make the best judges! I would prefer if every judge were an extremely knowledgeable person in their field, with a possible company bias, than a shmoe who aged-out of corps x and took judging classes. I know that each judge is knowledgeable, but there is a reason judges get let go from year to year, right? People on DCP are studying what judge is judging which caption and who they like and how that is going to play into the ranks and the scores and blah, blah, blah. The casual drum corps fans in the stands don't care, and neither should we. It's fine to see it and go "Wow! Experienced guys! Cool." But crazy to look at a line of judges and say "O, Cavaliers are going to win today." Point: Let's just assume judges are unbiased until proven otherwise.

Their dancing is all strictly taught and enforced, but BD does a lot with "emotion". I wouldn't doubt that their runs are more "look like this and have this emotion" than "use this specific style". Harder to judge that way. However, their jazz runs are all exactly the same, so I know that has to be taught

I know. But you can't rank what has yet to happen. The example I gave showed how judges need to leave room for the possibility of someone being above (i.e. a higher rank). That is why the score (rate) can't be a perfect score unless in the judges mind the corps is clearly and undeniably better (top rank). I think you and I are on the same side, but its a misunderstanding.

Ding Ding! QFT

Umm... tic system? It was a whole different judging sheet. Different points awarded for different actions with different caption arrangements and entirely different productions on the field. Year-to-year comparison has absolutely no bearing in drum corps. Good job revealing your age, though

But again, you NEED numbers management. Imagine if at Finals judges really did reset after each show and judged without numbers management. By the time the 3rd to last corps come on, the judge may say "Hey, that was nearly flawless. They achieved everything they need to. 10 in both sub captions!" Then, the next corps comes out: "Hey, they were even better. Well, I already gave a 10 in both sub-captions. I guess they get perfect 10s as well." Now the last corps comes out. They are better than my first example, but worse than my second. What do you do? You HAVE to give them a 10. They weren't perfect, because they were LESS perfect than the corps right before them, yet the two corps score the same. This is why judges leave room. They need spaces in case a corps is better. If a corps isn't better, than no one scores higher and the corps wins. Yay for them! Any time a judge has given a perfect 10 in a caption, it is because they believe that there is no way a corps could be better. The corps doesn't have to be completely and totally without flaw, but it would certainly help. They just have to be undeniably better than the other corps.

They manage numbers because they can't just look at a show and say "95.925". If there was a system of just giving a score, that would increase favoritism. If a judge thought it was perfect, they would give a 20. As it is right now they say, "well, the brass is really good because of x, y, and z, but it is POSSIBLE for a corps to be better, so I'll only give a 19.8". If no one is better, than no one is better. If the next corps is equal, than they give the same score. I think what you want is the tic system to come back.

Considering there aren't that many corps, being "a placement or two" different is expected. If the Top 6 were completely scrambled, most would be within 2 placements, yeah? What I notice is the fact Bluecoats have gone from 6th last year to 2nd - 4th all year this year. That's a huge difference to me.

Occasionally there is favoritism, but in an ideal world there wouldn't be. While favoritism may account for part of a drop, most of it probably has to do with inconsistency, or competing against different corps. Sometimes at shows, a section of the corps may not be feeling as hot, or someone could suffer an injury. For instance, if one person in the snareline wasn't doing so well, it would affect the whole line as well as the music ensemble at large. Things tend to ripple. If corps x has been competing against corps y all summer and then all of a sudden corps z is added to the competition, often times judges are forced to lower scores to leave room. It's numbers management. Remember that it isn't the overall number that matters, its the spread.

You know that scores are a culmination of multiple categories, right? For your theory to hold true, each and every judge would have to "give them a tenth" to boost the overall score. Each caption is judged separately, by a different person with different viewpoints. Look at the recaps for yourself. BD is winning brass, yes? Do props affect brass? BD is winning drums (with a sub caption going to Phantom). Do props affect how the judge hears the drummers play? No. DCI doesn't just look at the show and say "Eh, give it a 90! O wait they have props... 92!". No props play a part in GE? Sure. If used correctly (which undoubtedly, BD does), props can have a major sway on Visual GE. But that is one caption. It doesn't decide the whole show.