queenanne_1536

Again, go back and review recaps from prior years. Today 8 tenths is a much bigger margin than in recent pasts. 12 out of 16 sub-captions is domination. 12 out of 16 judges thought Vanguard better than Crown. Hate to disappoint you, but that’s domination.

Scores themselves don’t matter. Spreads matter. Crown was 8 tenths behind Vanguard, Vanguard was 7 tenths behind Bluecoats 3 nights ago. So, Crown is probably 1.5 down from Bluecoats, and BAC is probably 2.4 down by Bluecoats. So, nothing has really changed at all from the last time Bluecoats met BAC.

I think Crown has the most fantastic show of the season. I absolutely LOVE their drill this year. It’s difficult, but not difficult for the sake of difficult. It fits the music so well and is really exciting to watch. Were I a judge I’d have Crown winning GE and Visual (at least the content sub-captions right now), but I’m not a judge. Vanguard dominated them on the sheets tonight. The overall score was close, but Vanguard won 12 out of 16 sub-captions. That’s domination, so right now it isn’t as close as the spread in total score.

Of course, but you have to look back on previous years. In all recent years it is very unlikely that anyone who is behind someone at this stage, at the top, is going to catch them. SCV is most certainly going to beat Crown in guard and percussion, and quite possibly could beat them in brass. That bleeds into GE. Go back and look for the past several years at the top tier corps. Not much changes between now and finals within the top 4.

In 2017, they were much closer to SCV for a lot of the season and never caught them. It’s very hard for the top corps to move ahead of anyone that’s already in front of them. Crown has my favorite show of the season, but I’m not sure what the judges really want. Can definitely see SCV beating them in all the captions they did tonight. It’s a bigger whole for Crown to climb out of than it seems.

Tonight bodes well for Vanguard remaining in a medalist position, IMO, losing only 4 out of 16 sub-captions against Crown is a very good position to be in. I can’t wait to see Vanguard’s changes. Hopefully, they will give them a further boost.

Can’t wait to see the recap for this one.

Well it is absolutely easier to play standing still vs. marching. However, I’m not denying they aren’t doing difficult things. But, some of those difficult things are for the sake of being difficult. When you look at shows Star did in the early 90s and Cadets have done a million times, the demand wasn’t there for the sake of demand. It was there because the drill, the speed of the drill, and the formations of the drill fit the tempo of the music and the music itself. Star 1990 was definitely more difficult than Regiment 1990, but I loved both of those shows, for different reasons. Both, IMO, had visuals that fit the music - Star’s music (especially at the end) was just crazier. Today, they may be doing difficult things, but this is a marching activity, and marching is not something they are doing. I’m just really bored by it all. There’s no musicality. There’s not much melody. The brass lines are playing less, and playing less on the move. The things I loved about this activity, namely music and drill are just falling by the wayside, so I just don’t know where to get my fix anymore.

I’m an old nag, but I have been a supporter of trombones, electronics, body movements, the costuming changes, three values and narration (as stupid and cheesy as it is 99.9% of the time), but what I’m having trouble supporting is the complete lack, in most corps, of actually marching while playing and actually marching a drill. It’s all just SO BORING. Most everyone has the same formula - stand - play ridiculously hard music that’s just hard for the sake of being hard - drum break while the brass runs in scatter drill and dances and does body movements - stand - play ridiculously hard music that’s just hard for the sake of being hard. Rise and repeat over and over and over. ] Then we have the props. I’m not going to single any corps out - wait ok I’ll single them all out (expect BD) - what they are doing with their props is so laughable and basic. BD actually does cool and interesting things with their props. Everyone else - it’s just so corny. The Blue Stars sliding down slides. Really? Dumb. Vanguard having ladders just so people can climb them and not do anything interesting on them. Yeah, that’s exciting to watch. Bluecoats having a ridiculous amount of #### on the field to detract from the fact that they don’t have much drill either. Boston (who is actually one of the few who do have a drill) just hang on theirs. Really - it’s nothing interesting, so I’m perplexed as to why the activity has moved into this prop heavy direction. If you’re not BD, I can basically slam your props. They are all essentially pointless because they add absolutely nothing to the show. Bluecoats ‘16, Vanguard ‘18 and BD ‘19 were really the three times that props were really elevated to levels they should be. I watch Flo every week, and I’m just bored with everyone except Crown and Boston. This activity has lost it’s way. I’m not drinking the KoolAid anymore.

I am the biggest Vanguard fan. Have been since '84. I want them to win every year. That being said, it is far from nitpicking. They simply just don't play and move at the same time, moving at a faster pace than a moderate walking speed. There just simply isn't nearly enough drill. Next time you watch them, focus on who is playing and who is moving. Most of the time, those who aren't playing are moving and those who are are standing still. When they all move and play it is at a perhaps moderate walking pace. That is why Bluecoats are beating them, that's why Blue Devils WILL beat them, and that's why Crown might beat them (if they can clean). I LOVE the music this year, but that isn't the problem. It's a complete lack of a visual program that is the problem. With Babylon, the props were so well integrated into the show and used in unique and inventive ways. The drill was great. The color scheme was great. The finale was an explosion. Really? The purpose of those poles with ladders is so people can climb them? Really? That's SO basic. Then again, all props (except) BD are used in basic ways. It's all just so stupid. BD uses theirs in unique and interesting ways. No one else does. Vanguard has ZERO chance to win this year unless they have major changes coming that will enhance their show. I mostly don't like BD and I'm not the biggest Bluecoats fans, but both of their shows are vastly superior, on the visual front (and so are Crown, Cavies and BAC) to Vanguard's show. It's a big disappointment. The whole show shifts between a moderate pace and a slow pace. They needed fireworks in the closer and they aren't delivering. The closer is my favorite part of the show, but with the pacing of the rest of the show, they really need and up tempo closer that fires on all cylinders.

I think once BD makes their way east, it’s all over. They have hands down the best show in the top 3 this year.

Yeah, Bloos book sacrifices music for technical demand. It’s like one big technical exercise. Hate to break to to you Bloo’s designers, but the Beatles were better writers and arrangers than you. I’m so sick of music being ruined for the sake of demand. Everyone does it, but I think Vanguard has the better musical book of the two. Still, one of my favorite shows of the season, because I love the guard book so much, and I love how the blue and orange look together on the field, I love the drill (despite the fact that there are way too much props and they don’t do anything inventive or exciting with them. Not that anyone else, save BD, does either, but there’s just way too much crap on the field and it looks so cluttered.

I know. I just don't get what the big deal is. They made a decision they felt would serve their organization the best. That's it.

It's not a terrible decision by the Madison Scouts. Most corps, at one time, were all male or all female. This move is about inclusion. It isn't about condemning the past, being politically correct, or attempting to correct some past discrimination that some people may have perceived to have been there. I don't think it's discriminatory to have all male or all female organizations. I just think, it this day and age, it's pretty pointless. I like that people are finally starting to be allowed just be people without being put into these gender boxes. The Scouts aren't like the Cavaliers - they just don't draw top talent. The Cavaliers can afford to stay all male because they can stay all male and remain competitive and relevant. The Scouts cannot. They are literally increasing their talent pool by close to 100%. That's actually a smart move for a corps that is struggling competitively. I value diversity and choice in ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE and I love this decision. I wouldn't have cared if they had stayed all male for the rest of their existence, or had any opinion about it, but that's not what they decided to do. I support them being gender inclusive just as I support the Cavaliers remaining all male, or Crossmen deciding to have an all female guard. I don't think the Scouts did this in any way, shape, or form out of trying to erase some perceived discrimination, because I don't think the Scouts organization has ever thought they were discriminatory, and I don't think that either.

I'm kinda with you. But, for me, I'm just bored. Most shows are the same - same structure - same poorly arranged music that's arranged mostly for difficulty and nothing else - same lack of hornlines marching while playing - same cluttered fields - same unreadable drill. It's just boring. I only care about two shows now - Crown and BAC. That's it, and even that's a stretch.

This. Exactly. I am happy about this news, and hopefully it will help them talent wise, but many more changes need to happen before that.

Just because most alumni are not happy with or down right angry with the current state of the corps, doesn’t mean they aren’t level-headed, informed, or supporters of the current activity. Good grief, are you just not paying attention? What is there possibly to celebrate in a former world champion that will be struggling to maintain 16th place this year. The problem with Madison isn’t their alumni, it’s the immunity that CK and DP seemingly have, and the crowd who congratulate failures rather than telling it like it is. CK and DP should have been fired after the 2018 season, if not the 2016 season. Each year this design team takes shots in the dark. It’s so blatantly obvious they are in completely over their heads and have absolutely no idea how to design a show to be competitive. In 2017, they may have been on to something. It was a very modern show, which was good. However, the corps lost their identity a bit. But, they had something to build off. They were headed in the right direction. Last year was a mess. This year, again, a missed opportunity. If you’re going to go old school, why not go all out? Why have this old school-modern hybrid? Why not structurally design the show based on late 90s/early 2000s shows? They had an opportunity to win the fans here despite the judges. Had they taken that opportunity I would have respected them. Instead, we have this hybrid show that just doesn’t present the best of old school or the best of modern drum corps. It doesn’t work. Shots in the dark. Again. You cannot be successful without a multi-year plan, figuring out the path you want to take, and sticking to it and putting the pieces in place along the way. In all of this, it’s the members I have the most empathy for. They just aren’t given products that allow them to be successful form a competitive standpoint, or to win over the fans. I certainly wouldn’t even consider marching there today. No way. Madison is never ever ever ever going to get out of this unless the BOD steps up, cleans house, and starts working with alumni (instead of completely shutting them out and alienating them) to move the corps forward.

Exactly. But, I hope they are going to make some changes to this show, because what they have right now just isn't going to be enough to challenge Bluecoats and BD. It's a bummer.

No, no, no, no no. Star's book was extremely difficult in 1991 and what made it extremely difficult was the music they were playing while moving at the speed they were moving through complex drill. If you saw them live in 1991 it was really something to behold. Just spectacular. I don't know how many sets 1991 Star had in comparison to today, but it's obvious you don't either in making such a claim that they stood still twice as much today. Are you just not watching? The number of sets is irrelevant. It's what happens between the sets that matters - the transitions. Today, it's a lot of scatter set dancing body movement tumbling between sets. Back in the day one set transitioned smoothly to the the next set, and those transitions were as important as hitting the sets themselves. So much so much so that during visual and ensemble rehearsals were were halted between sets. For example, if there were 8 counts between steps, we would stop at 2 counts, 4 counts and 6 counts were the form would be evaluated and people were directed to do things differently. The entire show then was one visual marching piece - it all tied together. I will agree with those who say demand isn't only measured by marching at breakneck speeds, but no hornline today is put to task like 1991 Star was, or 1990-1993 Star for that matter. Or a handful of the Cadets shows through the years. What Star's hornline did in '91 was miraculous because it is so extremely difficult to maintain quality tone and breath control while marching a complex drill and trying to dress that drill while you were marching. A lot of simultaneous responsibilities. Claiming corps are marching more today than corps did in the past, much less claiming they are marching more while playing and standing still less either means you just aren't paying attention or are making bogus claims yourself.

Yes, you're absolutely right. It's the same with Madison. 12th, 13th or 16th should not be a success for either organization. 10th shouldn't even be considered a success. But, it would appear the show is better than the last two years, so that's a good thing. If I think, at the end of the season, that the show is better than the last two years and they place 12th, then that's a good thing. I'm more concerned about the design than placement, so if they end the year with a better design than the past two years, then they are heading in the right direction.

It sure does. That could still happen.

In my heart I wanted better for them, but last week I had written them off for making finals. 100%. But thanks for the nice words. It's good to be wrong more often than being right.

I think it's safe to say Bluecoats are our leader right now.

It's an exhibition.

Yeah, them, Crown and Stars move more while playing difficult passages than the rest (Crown moreso than anyone - that's why I want them to win). Shows like that are just much more enjoyable to me. I absolutely love Vanguard's music, but I just can't get behind a show where the hornline literally never plays while moving at more than a moderate walk. Sorry, not sorry.