ecamburn

As a survey designer, I didn't think the questions were that bad. Certainly the questions won't allow DCI to pinpoint what the nature of the sound problem is at LOS, but that wasn't the intent of the survey. I think the intent was to get a general feel for whether people liked the sound or not, what about the sound they didn't like, and whether liking/disliking was related to a particular section of the stadium. There's no way the survey can capture the full complexity of people's perceptions of the sound and all of the factors that explain those perceptions. For example, I sat in two different sections for semis and finals and the sound was very different in both sections. The survey didn't capture that level of complexity, so given an understanding of what the survey results were likely to be used for, I opted to report on the section where I felt the sound was worse.

??? I got the survey and was not a ticket package buyer. It's hard to fathom the amount of negativity in this place (not directed to Triple Forte but to other posts). How many of you who are complaining have actually seen the content of the survey? In my view, the survey addressed many of the concerns about finals expressed here, and did so in an in depth way. How many organizations do you know of that are this responsive to their client base?

FWIW, I'm with you on all fronts. We sat in 400 something on Friday night and in 64? on Saturday (about on the 47 ). Really bad sound in the 400s, **much** clearer sound upstairs with reasonable volume. This is 2009, there has to be a technical solution to this. I'm not sure DCI/BOA has much clout, but the fact that the stadium owners were responding to the concerns of a big country music star (Kenny Chesney?) seems more promising to me.

Major league strategic moves from the Scouts. They needed a game changer and it's hard to imagine any better hires they could have made. I don't mean to take anything away from these extraordinary moves, but I do have a question. It strikes me that these changes address the design side of the equation. Problem fixed there (except perhaps for percussion). :-) But what about the recruitment and teaching side of things? Obviously the best design in the world won't be rewarded unless it's executed well. Go Scouts!

Yes, they've remained similar for about 20 years, but I wouldn't say today's uniform is a modernization of earlier unis. Cavies have gone through major changes over the year. At least 3 styles of hats - originally shakos, 70s=big black cavalier hats, 83/84-present white cavalier hats. The rest of the uniform has changed a lot over the years too. For example the silk tops with puffy sleeves and naugahyde vests from the 70s are really different than the current uniform. FWIW, I'm pretty sure I've seen an early picture of Phantom regiment in shakos. Would have been from a program from the early-mid 70s.

I marched Cavies in 79. Went back the following fall and had a spot in the tenor line. Stopped going back that fall because I thought I couldn't financially afford corps and going to college at the same time. I now see my son doing some traveling this summer because it's something he's passionately wanted to do for a long time, even though the "practical" decision would be to work/go to school, etc. I really respect him for taking this risk. Sometimes what seems so immediate and pressing really isn't.

fwiw, those are pretty much the same prices as the Madison show this year and you guys had a much stronger lineup.

nice thread. seriously. a couple thoughts... *IMO, it's a real challenge to effectively convey a complex drum corps show and a relatively complex narrative in 11 minutes. The Cadets really have their work cut out for them. *Happiness is a touchy subject, especially in a society where there's a prevailing belief that everybody has their own custom path to happiness. Suggesting to an audience what happiness is can come off as preachy. I'm not suggesting that preaching was the intention of the designers, just offering a thought about how the show might be perceived by the audience. *Many objectors (myself included) are dissatisfied because of a perceived imbalance between the quality of the traditional drum corps elements of the show (brass, percussion, color guard), and the narrative element of the show. Specifically, I think quite a few folks feel the quality of the narrative element falls considerably below the quality of the traditional drum corps elements. My guess is that there wouldn't be as much controversy this year if the narrative element were designed better. Perhaps what we're seeing is growing pains with this new approach. Hoppy and the Cadets appear to be reacting to some sort of feedback, whether it's judges, audiences or both. And my sense from reading show reviews here is that folks think the changes are making the show more effective. So my suggestion, FWIW, would be for the Cadets to continue to work to figure how narrative story lines can be effectively integrated into a world class drum corps show. IMO, they're not quite there yet.

Looks like the guys are making great strides. If you look at the recaps from last night, it's clearly the guard that's hurting em. But it sounds like the guard's working hard. go scouts!

my guesses... *visitor side doesn't have an overhang because there's no upper deck. Sitting under the upperdeck can feel like you're looking through a porthole. so seating on visitor side is actually better for a smaller crowd like this IMO. *made it possible to conveniently open only one gate (gate 1) that's connected to the souvie area. whatever the reasons, this setup seemed to work very well IMO.

When I saw the long list of composers in Crown's program blurb last night I rolled my eyes. I'm not a huge fan of the recent compostional trend in drum corps of short choppy segments that seem mainly designed to punctuate a visual effect, but do so at the cost of communicating a coherent musical idea. But IMO, the way in which the Crown designers combined these different pieces actually worked quite well. Nearly all pieces are easily recognizable which I think will help a lot of folks track the show. Transitions didn't seem forced or choppy.

I have essentially the same sentiment as the OP. I marched in the 70s and have followed the activity ever since. I enjoy narration when it's done well and compliments the show. I saw Cadets for the first time last night. Sadness and embarassment (for the members) are the two emotions that come closest to what I felt last night. In my opinion, the narrative, the text, is amateurish . The story attempts substance and sophistication but comes off as superficial and cartoonish IMO. I felt the quality of the narrative was far beneath the quality of one of the greatest drum corps of all time. Which made me think... (I know this has been proposed by others). Properly judge narration. IMO, this would partially address this situation. Judging the execution is easily. How well are the voices blended, mixed, coordinated with the music and the visual program? But beyond execution, I'd recommend that the text itself, the narrative be judged. Shows are already judged on their conceptual content - the effectiveness with which they convey a story or concept. In this sense I suppose you could argue that some of this is already on the sheets. But I'd argue to make the criteria for judging narration more explicit.

After seeing Scouts last night, my sense is that they're going to come out a lot stronger this year than last. Cavies PR Crown Madison Colts Blue Stars

Just got back from madisonic. Sorry I didn't take any pix but I'm sure someone will be along soon. But I'll describe the new unis - Army green Eisenhower jackets cut high on the wasteline, white dress shirts, red ties, white aussies, black pants. Patches on the shoulders. Very, very classy IMO. The designers struck a beautiful balance between communicating a strong Madison tradition and providing a clean, modern look. One of my favorite unis of all time. The Scouts just seem to be strong on so many fronts this year - the musical program seems much more mature, the drill seems more sophisticated, drill and music seem to form a more coherent package. Musically they're sounding great. The opener is one of my favorite drum corps pieces of all time and I was first exposed to the activity in the early 70s. I could go on and on but I wanted to get the info about the unis posted. eric

I was also at bratfest and I heard the corps run a couple tunes for warmups. My impression was very similar to the OPs, though perhaps a little more positive. I too thought they sounded like the 3rd day of all days. Not overly bad, not overly good, just what you would expect. There were a lot of holes - only 2 tenors, looked like a snare hole (8 were there). I didn't count carefully, but I'd guess there were only 60 horns total. Obviously they still have a lot of guys yet to move in. I actually like the musical selections and look forward to getting to know them better with repeated listens. To my ears the opener sounded like it has a lot of potential. Pops nice and loud right off the bat. Ends fast and energetic. In between there's a lot of nice emotion conveyed. As the OP said, the mello section seems to be particularly strong. I don't want to be too evaluative, because you can only tell so much from a single viewing, and the conditions were not ideal, but from what I saw, it looked like the Scouts might be farther along then they were this time last year. My wife and I went to a rehearsal about this time last year and things looked very rough. As I say, my rough impression is that the Scouts are further along this year.

Kind of curious that there isn't a news release on the Cavies website. I'm a cavie alum and longtime admirer of SCV. I have nothing but good wishes for Jeff and both organizations.

wow. didn't you just accuse someone of being elitist a couple of posts back? I realize that dci is certainly not the government and is therefore not a democratic institution, but is there anything wrong with people who care for the activity to express their opinions about it? Especially after DCI invited such expression? eric

The finals tickets are sold but I still have 2 seats for semis. Semis - 2 tickets Section 21, row 70, seats 17 & 18 I'm asking face value of $40/apiece Contact me at ecamburn at yahoo dot com if you're interested Eric

Hi all, I have the following tickets for sale: Semis - 2 tickets $40 section 21, row 70, seats 17 & 18 Finals - 2 tickets $75 section 20, row 53, seats 112 and 113 I'd like to get face value for them, but make me an offer and we can talk. To sweeten the deal, I'll throw in overnight postage to mail these to you. I'd prefer Paypal, but am open to discussion on other forms of payment. Contact me at: ecamburn at yahoo dot com Eric Camburn

Yeah, I know. But otherwise you're simply taking one person's word.

This is what I worry about, people taking this as fact. I do research for a living, and perform the kind of "coding" the OP did in conducting his/her analysis all the time. What may seem completely objective is often very subjective, so I'd find all of this much more believable if 1 or 2 other people gave this kind of analysis a try for the same corps. Nothing against the OP, it's just how this kind of stuff goes. Also, a question about the system. Bold means they were playing while moving at at least some pace. Italic is playing while moving very slowly. What is plain text? Not moving? Does your analysis indicate that the horn line isn't moving for nearly every drum break? eric

TNC, No reason to go hatin on Madison the town either. Some of us love the overture and some of us think the student body being liberal is just fine thank you. B) It wouldn't bother me if they drank less though. B) Then again, maybe you were kidding. It's so hard to tell on the internets. eric

I have to agree. This was a great night. With Spirit, SCV, and Madison playing their corps songs, it was almost like an old style retreat. SCV's drumline smokes. Watching their center snare (you go girl!) is a show in and of itself. She's incredibly intense. Actually saw a couple of SCV guard and drumline kids get teary during send in the clowns. Great to see the traditions passed down. Madison put on a great show. Played the opening chorale from Elton John's funeral for a friend before playing through their show. After playing the show, they played through their street beat and 76 trombones. The final chord for Ice Castles was one of the loudest things I've ever heard - this after many years of corps shows and rock concerts. Never Walk was a great cap off to the evening. Oh yeah. Big hats off to the show organizers for the pre-planning and smooth transition from the football field to the fieldhouse. Thumbs down to DCI for allowing corps warmups to be heard while field performances were taking place. There were soft parts of Capital Sound's and Pioneer's shows where the sounds of warm ups overpowered the field performance. <**> I thought corps were penalized for practicing too close to the stadium? eric

I was struck by the same thing. How many times in that passage did he mention things he's going to do. I thought there was no I in team. B) eric

You probably know this but the big difference is that the APDs are a compressed (lossy) format, so CDs will always sound much better. eric