radiosteele Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) F the scores tonight. They seem very off key from the rest of the season. I understand that Bluecoats have a weak visual program consistantly, but to go from 1st in brass to 4th and to be beat by crown for the first time this season and to get 8th in a few captions. WHATEVER. P.S. Bluecoats, hire a visual team that can reach the level of the music staff. If you are striving to be competitive and want to win in the near future, FIX VISUAL. I love the show this year, but something that the corps has been doing visually for 15 years really does not set well with the judges. Rambling, rambling etc. You know what to do. Kick A at finals and finish this. GO BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (no I am not biased B) ) I agree 100% with this post. Spot on. Doug and the hornline deserve better than this. Edited August 11, 2007 by radiosteele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorcoly Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 P.S. Bluecoats, hire a visual team that can reach the level of the music staff. If you are striving to be competitive and want to win in the near future, FIX VISUAL. I love the show this year, but something that the corps has been doing visually for 15 years really does not set well with the judges. Rambling, rambling etc. You know what to do. Kick A at finals and finish this. GO BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (no I am not biased B) ) Before I go on, let me say that as a 'Coats alum, I am EXTREMELY PROUD of the corps, and what they have done over the past 10 plus years!!!! Current members -- you are living a dream that most of us oldies (pre-1988) never ever thought would come to reality!! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!! Now -- on to the visual issues. They have been a problem for MORE then 15 yrs!!! The key is (and I have said this to various 'Coats board members), get some key core people on the visual staff and KEEP THEM THERE for longer then 2 to 4 years (the "revolving door syndrome)!!! The music side of things are proving (look at the numbers!!) that having a "constant" is crucial! (Thrower & Co, and now Mike McIntosh). Plus every corps that does well visually year after year, if you look at their staff roster, many of them have been with their respective corps for a while (4 plus years, etc). I stand by what I posted here last year during finals week -- If Blue can get the visual challenges cleaned up (to include a visual design staff / team), Canton will have a DCI championship trophy in the not-so-distant future!!! Ok -- that's it for now -- thanks for reading/listening!! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishDish1002 Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I can't believe the guard went from 2nd to 5th....was it a bad run and I just couldn't tell on the webcast?? That's the only explanation I can think of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 For those of you *shocked* at judging - welcome to drum corps. Judging in drum corps is really no different from judging in ice skating. It is subjective. Room is made when judging ealier corps for the later corps scores to be higher if that is warranted in the opinion of the judge (a fancy way to describe slotting). My question: why is this a surprise to you? It has been this way FOREVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpookyKid Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 To be honest, the fact that the caption results are all over the place should not surprise anyone at all. This has been pretty much one of the most competitive years DCI has had in a long time. You have had seven corps this year strong enough to win the title in most years (and despite the scores, I think all seven shows are a lot closer together than they have been placed. To put those seven corps with their very strong shows is going to end up in a huge struggle. With Finals tonight, you still have three, posssibly four corps, that could win it. I hope future seasons are at least as competitive as this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiosteele Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) For those of you *shocked* at judging - welcome to drum corps. Judging in drum corps is really no different from judging in ice skating. It is subjective. Room is made when judging ealier corps for the later corps scores to be higher if that is warranted in the opinion of the judge (a fancy way to describe slotting). My question: why is this a surprise to you? It has been this way FOREVER. Bunk. Just because a broken record plays for 20 or 30 years doesn't mean it will ever finish the song. It may have been this way since 83, but the approach taken today, at times, allows too much room for favoritism and slotting. Look at some recaps from the late 70s and early 80s and see how much room was made for some and not others. The act of padding scores for elite corps performing last is both corrupt and stupid. Every show should be judged every night as if the corps is being seen for the first time, without any thought given to where they are "ranked" or what the corps name is. Judge the #### performance. Maybe some of these "experts" can, well I don't know, adjudicate, for once. Judges should give the respective corps captions what they truly earn, not what will cover their ### and make room for their favorites. Notice how the Blue Knights swept most of the percussion events at I & E? Do you see that reflected in their score? It seems when it comes to corps 10th and below, the judges are fairly liberal with caption placement and scoring. There are some exceptions, like the Troopers being judged as the second corps on. They were screwed as soon as the Qfinals lineup was announced. Subjectivity in the hands of the right people is a good thing. Subjectivity in the hands of fat porkers who judge field brass by munching donuts on the sidelines, isn't. Edited August 11, 2007 by radiosteele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecadet20012001 Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I think judging like this just as in figure skating and anything where a group of people determine the outcome based on really opinions is all corrupted and fixed to a certain degree. I think one day the only way to make it fair is come up with some sort of computer system that judges the shows all except for general effect where a person should be aloud to judge. A good GE judge basis his or her opinion on the design, energy, enthusiasm, and even a little crowd response at least looking to see how much the crowd is really captivated. I hope i don't jinx cadets, but i think cadets are gonna take it tonight only because we have not seen a 1st 2nd flip from simis to finals in a while the most we have seen is usually a tie. I think its gonna happen so sorry for all those who hate the voice. It more about performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decompressed Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Humans making decisions based somewhat on opinions.....the recap is as it should be, with captions placing higher and lower....AT LEAST WE DON'T HAVE STRAIGHT 11111, 2222, 333, ETC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Corps staff and fans don't want each show judged as if it were the only show of the summer. They get upset about any significant variations in the scores from one show to the next. They want to see correlation from one show to the next, which leads to some judges 'doing homework' so they know what numbers a particular corps has been earning recently. Assuming you keep the 'build up' system, I think you MUST have random seeding at all shows. The only exception might be Finals, perhaps, but even then it should be random bottom 6 and random top 6. This means judges will have a harder time 'slotting' by default. This would require that fans and corps give up this fairly recent attachment to performance order based almost entirely on previous scores. At worst, you can give the previous year finalists the last 12 slots (randomly assigned) at both Quarters and Semifinals. Everyone else goes randomly assigned before them. Then the top 12 go to Saturday and are randomly assigned in groups of 6 (or entirely random since there is no broadcast to break it up for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) Crown 5th in guard - nope...agreedBcoats brass 4th - nope...true - but why no objections about Crown's brass getting overlooked all season? BD perc 1st - nope...agreed BAC 12th in brass - nope...agreed In fairness to Crown, they have a wonderful brass line, and I think people have been questioning the judging of their line all season, BUT... I think there is a big difference between the Bluecoats brass and Crown. I think the books are night and day, and I think the playing is night and day. I still believe that Bluecoats will pull something a bit closer to a 19.7 or 19.8 tonight. I felt they got dumped in brass last night, and in visual, and I really thought their show was on. I guess I just don't see how we didn't beat Crown, SCV, and frankly how we were not a bit closer to Phantom. But I am a homer, and I know Bluecoats will bring it tonight. JW Edited August 11, 2007 by jwillis35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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