Russellrks Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) I don't believe Bayonne's case was any different. Everybody knew (or should have known) since the rule at the time clearly stated that you could not turn 22 before finals in order to be eligible to march that years competitive season. If Bayonne had any doubts about this they should have gotten clarification before the season started. I know this because I aged out in 1976. My birthday is in July and I could have had a lead soloist spot in the Blue Devils in 1977 but I knew that the rule disqualified me from marching another year, so if I knew then certainly those who ran the Bridgemen should have known as well. Edited January 23, 2010 by Russellrks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I don't believe Bayonne's case was any different. Everybody knew (or should have known) since the rule at the time clearly stated that you could not turn 22 before finals in order to be eligible to march. If Bayonne had any doubts about this they should have gotten clarification before the season started. I know this because I aged out in 1976. My birthday is in July and I could have had a lead soloist spot in the Blue Devils in 1977 but I knew that the rule disqualified me from marching another year, so if I knew then certainly those who ran the Bridgemen should have known as well. Agreed, and they should have known the rules.....all that I was saying is that where the members in question were ineligible, Bayonne didn't march any 22 year olds....and I do believe they would not have marched them after they turned 22. as they stated..... in the cases of Muchachos and Crossmen, they did get caught marching 22 year-olds..... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I know what the circumstances were, and I am aware of what the rules are. I am not disputing that the rules were voted on or passed. No, not at all. I was just thinking with my heart after all these years and not my rule book. It was so much more then a punishment for that 1 show, or even that 1 year. If you marched a year after your corps was disqualified , as you say, then you must have witnessed this. Might I ask who it was that you marched with? Crossmen....77,78 I knew members who were in 76, and know the corps was crushed by the experience......what few knew was that a man hell-bent on hurting the corps actually flew from Philly to Sevierville to "do the deed", and ratted the member out immediately following their competitive performance, and the corps was disqualified that night. However, to their credit, the corps refused to die, did exhibitions, still had some "non-DCI' contests, and hung together for 77. I was a little leary, but the corps was on a mission. DCI lined us up for age checks 3 times the next year..............and we also paid dues by doing a ton of promotional daytime exhibitions for them while on tour... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tansea Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Really??!! This sill comes up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yeah, it's just a rumor ... The Muchachos were lined up outside the stadium immediately after they came off the field. The overage individual was picked out, and was carrying his wallet. The ID confirmed he was overage.The DCI officials new ahead of time what was going to go down, so Briske had probably been told to obtain and seal the sheets. Again, no great conspiracy in how the action was carried out ... DCI already had procedures in place for this type of situation and carried them out. You've got two people telling you this who heard it directly from Pesceone, as well as other witnesses. Accept that and stop thinking that Mulder and Scully could get at the bottom of this. There is no bottom to get at, except that a rather tragic thing happened to a bunch of kids 32 years ago. I agree and we both heard the same things.....however, there is zero doubt that every judge knew what they gave them, as they place that on their totes.......but if nobody pursued it, it's too late.........Yep, tragic it was, and even worse, set up the eventual demise of the corps......... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Well, I think we'd agree that the "gotcha" approach was not the ideal method for fostering rule compliance.But it is a matter worthy of discussion, considering that disqualification is still in the DCI rulebook. Raises the question....should it be? Alternatives have been offered, some in your own post....and one in real life. The '89 SCV incident shows that a lot was left to the discretion of contest staff (or even the voting directors themselves)....in sharp contrast to the '70s approach, especially regarding Bridgemen. By the way, the main reason this keeps getting stirred up is the speculation about "the score" for '75 Muchachos. Refusing to tally that score put that corps in an everlasting purgatory, and created a cruel and unusual punishment for all DQ survivors who, as a result, have to see this topic bubble up again and again. Actually, you are wrong about the Bridgemen here. A board of directors vote was taken in 77 after prelims and they presented their case, a vote was taken, and the vote was for disqualification, but it was by no means unanimous (my corps voted to not disqualify them). They secured a court injunction later on which forced DCI to allow them to march and compete in finals. A final judgement was not passed until after the season. Again, in the 89 Vanguard case, the overage members had presented fraudulent documents (a crime as well) which SCV was able to prove to the DCI board and administration, and the corps was cleared. GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) So it seems to me that many corps back in the day marched "over aged" members... I say this tongue in cheek, but still has anyone here ever seen ANY year video of Madison... That corps has got to have THE OLDEST LOOKING MEMBERSHIP EVER!!! Guys with Beards and very little hair left... Soloists! I mean maybe I am wrong but some of these guys look like they are in their late 30's and 40's! Edited February 4, 2010 by Big Bad Bari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc oldtimer Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 So it seems to me that many corps back in the day marched "over aged" members... I say this tongue in cheek, but still has anyone here ever seen ANY year video of Madison... That corps has got to have THE OLDEST LOOKING MEMBERSHIP EVER!!! Guys with Beards and very little hair left... Soloists! I mean maybe I am wrong but some of these guys look like they are in their late 30's and 40's! Some of that had to do with the times. Beards, stashes and long hair were in. But corps had different policies regarding hair length depending on their uniform type. For instance the Cavaliers used shakos up until 76. They had strict hair length policies because.... well, have you ever seen a long haired dude with a beard wear a shako? Not pretty. After 76 when we went to the big brim hats, this policy loosened. Even we had guys who grew beards and looked 30. I am sure this is the case with Madison considering the aussies they were known for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytimp Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 have you ever seen a long haired dude with a beard wear a shako? Not pretty. The Spirit of Atlanta drumline THROUGH THE ENTIRE DECADE OF THE 1980s would like a word with you. Outside. Alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Anello Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 So it seems to me that many corps back in the day marched "over aged" members... I say this tongue in cheek, but still has anyone here ever seen ANY year video of Madison... That corps has got to have THE OLDEST LOOKING MEMBERSHIP EVER!!! Guys with Beards and very little hair left... Soloists! I mean maybe I am wrong but some of these guys look like they are in their late 30's and 40's! Obviously, you never saw any pictures of the 1970s era Kilties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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