Muchachos 1975

[overthehillDM]

In response to the horrible experience (and it was!) of being disqualified, I quote Friedrich Nietzsche...

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."

[Jeff Ream]

My first and still some of my finest instructors were Hawthorne guys. They were tough on us, impossible to please, pushed us incredibly hard, and taught me volumes about hard work, loyalty, and pushing through any and all obstacles.

I think what happened in 75 was handled incredibly badly by DCI, was (essentially) the death knell for a terrific, competitive drum corps, and was such a traumatic and devastating moment in the lives of many fine young people.

I also think that it's more than a little "coincidental" that all of the corps punished for these overage transgressions hailed from the East Coast when we know these kinds of issues were happening elsewhere. Was it because the administration of DCI is Midwest based, or were there just enough people in these organizations who ticked off the powers that be? We'll never know, and I'm not going to ruminate on conspiracies. I will say to you younger folks that you have to understand what it was like to grow up in DCI-era drum corps on the East coast. In the late 70's and early 80's, we still hadn't seen a corps from the East Coast win Finals, and it felt to many of us like we never would. And if you had asked me to guess in 1980 which East coast corps would finally break through, Garfield would have been 4th or so on my list.

What I find ridiculously sad is that people who have had it so easy in drum corps and never faced the devastation that these young people did have no problem bringing this up, poking at old wounds, and theorizing what might have been...especially when these people weren't born at the time, have no new facts to add to the discussion, or had the good fortune to fall out of their front doors and have a world class organization with no money problems and plenty of DCI connections right outside their door. These were different times, and these mostly working class kids spent hours fund raising, practicing in lousy facilities, and playing on outdated equipment just to have their shot at the more favored big boys. Under all kinds of adversity, they produced a spectacular corps, and if you haven't listened to the 74 and 75 recordings, do yourself a favor and check them out.

Karen

agree on a lot of that.

however....even if others did it, no one turned them in, and the rules are the rules

[BariBrian]

CHRISP-

I read comments from Jeff Keviet's website, and he did not go into great detail, that there was confusion on the reporting time for the Muchachos for prelims. The corps thought they were on time, DCI said they were late and they were penalized. They came in 7th in prelims with a 83.050 and 4th in finals with a 86.950. The Muchachos 1974 finals recording was on fire and the fans went wild. The championships were at Cornell University in Ithaca NY in 1974 and were in Philadelphia PA in 1975 & 1976.

It should be noted that in 1974 the Muchachos were the East. The only other eastern corps to make finals were the Purple Lancers who I believe came in 7th. 1974 was an off year for 27th, Garfield and the Bridgemen.

Actually, the Purple Lancers came in 10th that year.

The times that day were all screwed up. The Corp that I marched with (The Emerald Knights from Saratoga NY) were scheduled first that Morning. When we arrived, we found out that they had moved our step off time up by 15 minutes. Three of our members that arrived by car and were tied up in the heavy traffic that the show caused, watched us step off without them.

[audiodb]

I read comments from Jeff Keviet's website, and he did not go into great detail, that there was confusion on the reporting time for the Muchachos for prelims. The corps thought they were on time, DCI said they were late and they were penalized. They came in 7th in prelims with a 83.050 and 4th in finals with a 86.950.

I doubt they were penalized for lateness....regardless, the recap shows only 0.1 in penalties for Muchachos, which would not have changed their placement in any case.

[BariBrian]

I doubt they were penalized for lateness....regardless, the recap shows only 0.1 in penalties for Muchachos, which would not have changed their placement in any case.

Also, there was a major difference between their Prelim Preformane and the finals. They were very good in the prelims, but they were fantastic in the finals. ON FIRE. I thought I was witnessing a major upset in the making. Same in 75

[Jim Anello]

Also, there was a major difference between their Prelim Preformane and the finals. They were very good in the prelims, but they were fantastic in the finals. ON FIRE. I thought I was witnessing a major upset in the making. Same in 75

I agree. They were OK in prelims, but a little flat. My thought at the time was I was seeing a repeat of 1973, when Hawthorne was the Beast of the East, came to Whitewater for DCI, and finished in the bottom six - overated.

They sure proved me wrong that night at finals. What a performance. You knew just by the way they turned around to the crowd after warmups that you were in for something special.

[DAvery]

Was an "exception" made here, and the letter of the rule was not enforced? Yep.....however, I think

most would agree that a horrible injustice would have been done to the corps if the circumstances were not

considered, and was certainly different then any other overage case in drum corps history.

GB

I must RESPECTFULLY disagree with you on this point.,,,,I agree that they (SCV) should not have been disqualified. JUST as I believe that the three eastern corps. should NOT have been. The KIDS in those corps had no control over choices that were made, JUST as the SCV KIDS had no idea, and even if they had known, how do they over ride an administrative decision?

.

It was their sweat and dedication all year that was ruined. Corps are not just some icon or name. They are made up of kids that work hard, sometimes go on tour with not enough money to even eat properly. I had to stand on corners during coin drops and car washes and whatever, to raise money to do something I loved more then Breathing, as MOST of us did. NO ONE who had to do that, deserved to be disqualified. Anyone that says different, is NOT thinking of the individuals that make up the organizations

Saying that the WHOLE corps. should be punished for an individuals decision, is kinda like finding one bad apple in the bag, and then throwing the whole bag away

Does any rules violation merit disqualification? What if half the corps was overage? 75%

On another note, is there any other rules violation that has disqualification as a consequence? If a corps performed with "illiegal" instruments, points are deducted but I don't think they are disqualified.

[Bob984]

Was an "exception" made here, and the letter of the rule was not enforced? Yep.....however, I think

most would agree that a horrible injustice would have been done to the corps if the circumstances were not

considered, and was certainly different then any other overage case in drum corps history.

GB

I must RESPECTFULLY disagree with you on this point.,,,,I agree that they (SCV) should not have been disqualified. JUST as I believe that the three eastern corps. should NOT have been. The KIDS in those corps had no control over choices that were made, JUST as the SCV KIDS had no idea, and even if they had known, how do they over ride an administrative decision?

.

It was their sweat and dedication all year that was ruined. Corps are not just some icon or name. They are made up of kids that work hard, sometimes go on tour with not enough money to even eat properly. I had to stand on corners during coin drops and car washes and whatever, to raise money to do something I loved more then Breathing, as MOST of us did. NO ONE who had to do that, deserved to be disqualified. Anyone that says different, is NOT thinking of the individuals that make up the organizations

Saying that the WHOLE corps. should be punished for an individuals decision, is kinda like finding one bad apple in the bag, and then throwing the whole bag away

In SCV's case, NOBODY (not members or administration/staff) knew that the kids in question were overage....they presented foreign, forged/fraudulent documents in order to march.......

In the Muchachos case, though, the staff/administration DID know the deal, as did many members, and from what I was told, there were many overage members. Yes, there was wrongdoing here on the part of the overage members and the staff/administration who were aware and let it happen. I would agree with you if it was a member or two and nobody in the corps knew, but that wasn't the case here.....if you disagree with the rule, fine, but DCI corps voted on and accepted the rules...yes, I feel for everyone who put in their time to learn a great show, compete all year, and have their dreams destroyed......

Bayonne's case was a bit different, and I did feel for them.....I don't think they actually marched a 22 year old in any contest....they did march I believe a few members who were going to turn 22 during the season, but had made plans to replace them at that time, not knowing they were totally ineligible for the season.

The Crossmen knowingly violated the rule and had a few overage members. However, most of the members did not know this, but administration did. They were caught.

It is a shame that it took 3 consecutive disqualifications to really force corps to document all members and provide it to DCI.......if DCI would have required that of all from the get-go, maybe these horrible occurences wouldn't have happened.

Just so that you know I am aware of the work and the agony, I was a member of one of the above (albeit the year AFTER they were disqualified)

GB

[BariBrian]

In SCV's case, NOBODY (not members or administration/staff) knew that the kids in question were overage....they presented foreign, forged/fraudulent documents in order to march.......

In the Muchachos case, though, the staff/administration DID know the deal, as did many members, and from what I was told, there were many overage members. Yes, there was wrongdoing here on the part of the overage members and the staff/administration who were aware and let it happen. I would agree with you if it was a member or two and nobody in the corps knew, but that wasn't the case here.....if you disagree with the rule, fine, but DCI corps voted on and accepted the rules...yes, I feel for everyone who put in their time to learn a great show, compete all year, and have their dreams destroyed......

Bayonne's case was a bit different, and I did feel for them.....I don't think they actually marched a 22 year old in any contest....they did march I believe a few members who were going to turn 22 during the season, but had made plans to replace them at that time, not knowing they were totally ineligible for the season.

The Crossmen knowingly violated the rule and had a few overage members. However, most of the members did not know this, but administration did. They were caught.

It is a shame that it took 3 consecutive disqualifications to really force corps to document all members and provide it to DCI.......if DCI would have required that of all from the get-go, maybe these horrible occurences wouldn't have happened.Just so that you know I am aware of the work and the agony, I was a member of one of the above (albeit the year AFTER they were disqualified)

GB

I know what the circumstances were, and I am aware of what the rules are. I am not disputing that the rules were voted on or passed. No, not at all. I was just thinking with my heart after all these years and not my rule book. It was so much more then a punishment for that 1 show, or even that 1 year. If you marched a year after your corps was disqualified , as you say, then you must have witnessed this. Might I ask who it was that you marched with?

Edited January 22, 2010 by BariBrian

[overthehillDM]

In the Muchachos case, though, the staff/administration DID know the deal, as did many members, and from what I was told, there were many overage members. Yes, there was wrongdoing here on the part of the overage members and the staff/administration who were aware and let it happen. I would agree with you if it was a member or two and nobody in the corps knew, but that wasn't the case here.....if you disagree with the rule, fine, but DCI corps voted on and accepted the rules...yes, I feel for everyone who put in their time to learn a great show, compete all year, and have their dreams destroyed......

Bayonne's case was a bit different, and I did feel for them.....I don't think they actually marched a 22 year old in any contest....they did march I believe a few members who were going to turn 22 during the season, but had made plans to replace them at that time, not knowing they were totally ineligible for the season.

It is a shame that it took 3 consecutive disqualifications to really force corps to document all members and provide it to DCI.......if DCI would have required that of all from the get-go, maybe these horrible occurrences wouldn't have happened.

GB

You are correct, sir.

I marched with the 1977 Bridgemen.

If you marched a year after your corps was disqualified , as you say, then you must have witnessed this.

That might be possible, but not necessarily. In my case, I marched with the 1976 Muchachos, but I did NOT witness the events of 1975.