Muchachos 1975

[SoundmanG]

Boy, I sure would like to hear what your instructor had to say about the whole affair. Especially the drum line. 19.7? What show was that at? SCV won drums with a 19.4 at Philly. That was the highest score we saw that year. Who was Muchachos instructor in '75?

Since I was new to Drum Corps I didn't really have any idea about DCI or over aged members yet. I was just a 17 year old drummer trying to get better and so never really had any in depth conversations about it. Since we (VK) were drumming in the 13-14 range seeing a sheet with only three tics on it was unreal. Overage or not drumming a 19 in the tic era was still an amazing feat. The sheet I saw (I'm not sure what show it was from) was only one of two so I'm sure the average score was a bit lower.

[Bob984]

Since I was new to Drum Corps I didn't really have any idea about DCI or over aged members yet. I was just a 17 year old drummer trying to get better and so never really had any in depth conversations about it. Since we (VK) were drumming in the 13-14 range seeing a sheet with only three tics on it was unreal. Overage or not drumming a 19 in the tic era was still an amazing feat. The sheet I saw (I'm not sure what show it was from) was only one of two so I'm sure the average score was a bit lower.

Actually, it was most likely from CYO nationals......they received a 19.5.....(19.6/19.4) and a 14.8 (2 ticks) and 14.7 (3 ticks) respectfully................You are also right that back then a 19 was the "holy grail" that drumlines dreamed about, but very few achieved........

GB

[Jeff Ream]

My 76 VK drum instructor marched in the 75 Muchachos snare line. What he told me was that there were quite a few over aged horn players and only a few drummers yet it was a drummer who got caught. I may have the sections reversed up but from the way he described it there was definitely more than one.

On a side note he did show us one of the drum sheets from the show where the drumline scored a 19.7. That was an amazing sight.

well, now we have 20% of the total

[Donny Drum Corps]

Ok, here's what I got. I marched Kilties in '75 and some things are hazy but I will report on the events that I remember.

First time we saw Muchachos we rolled up on their drum line at a show out east. Can't remember where the show was but it was about 2nd week of August, a few big corps at a small stadium. I remember meeting Purple Lancer girls. Anyway Muchachos drum line was pure smoke back then and we knew there's was going to be a bigger fight for top drums. That night they go on about 3rd or 4th to last so there's some time before finale. After they get off, we chat with a couple of Muchachos and a couple of civilians walk by--one of the uniformed Muchachos we're talking to yells to them questioning their clothing and asks "why weren't they in uniform" and started to laugh. The civilians stared back with a "shut up you idiot" look on their faces. We thought this odd but just raised an eye brow and said nothing. As savvy Midwestern corn slickers we know on average that there's bound to be 1 or 2 over age fibbers in every corp but have the documents to prove they're under 22. CW back then was you didn't narc.

So finale rolls around and the Muchachos sidle up on the field with so many holes in their ranks it was like grandma's teeth. Noticeable like a black eye. We chuckled in bewilderment at this and then noticed a large contingent of of plain clothes people behind them in the stands. What it looked like was a bunch (some say over 2 dozen) of Muchachos had marched and got out of uniform right after they performed. Like they didn't want to be identified with the corps. Drum line looked tiny like a parade corps. Then we wondered who just beat us. Fishy. Well shoot. What the dinkle do you say to that?

Well, much was said and discussed over the next week and a half--lots of talk and finger pointing. We heard some grumbling from the Cavies and other corps before DCI Philly but didn't think much about it. Then wham, Muchachos get cold-cocked by Don Warren. We were freaked. A little relieved, but truly weirded out but such an aggressive move. And all of our original thoughts came to bear at once and we realized that this was no surprise. I won't say we knew it was coming, but it was no surprise at all due to all the inter-corps yakking. Just shock. Worse was that at the time, the Cavaliers were NOT very popular and this just further reduced them to boogers. Really not fair to most of the Cavalier members who worked hard and knew nothing then suddenly became ugly targets. Certainly not fair to the Hawthorne kids either, just awful, really. Bad mess.

Anyway, this is what I remember--left out the hazy parts like what ever happened to those hot Purple Lancer gals.

They are all old broads now....LOL. Funny, we didnt think they so HOT...because we knew them LOL.

Purple Lancers didnt field in 1975 so you must have thinking about 1974. I hung out a few times with a black tenor player from Kilts that wore a "Park Panthers" sweatshirt...???? Ring a Bell?

Donny Descant

[tommyfromhowardst]

They are all old broads now....LOL. Funny, we didnt think they so HOT...because we knew them LOL.

Purple Lancers didnt field in 1975 so you must have thinking about 1974. I hung out a few times with a black tenor player from Kilts that wore a "Park Panthers" sweatshirt...???? Ring a Bell?

Donny Descant

It was definitely '75 but now that I think about it, the girls were not in uniform.....and then I ran into them again at CYO. One of them tripped up the stairs in the stands and landed hard and broke her shoe--poor girl. She was not that attractive right then. We met because one of them needed a match--everyone smoked bitd.

The tenor player you refer to is Mr. Wayne Rutheford of Racine WI. Great player--left in May of '75 not to return for some time. When I joined Kilts that season there were 3 tenor players and I would make the 4th. Those 3 had played together for years so I had my work cut out for me. Another tenor player in that line, Ron Anderson, went on that year to take individuals at DCI so it was a good line that year despite the sad absence of Wayne. Would have liked to see how we stacked up against Muchachos tenor line. We smoked every other tenor line we saw that year (that's right, I said it) and didn't get a chance to hang out with the Muchachos line, but I heard (from instructors) it would have been a good contest!

[Donny Drum Corps]

It is funny that after all of these years, the snare tech at Pioneer, a young man from Racine named Tony, showed up at a practice wearing a Park HS hoody and I thought of Wayne immediately...couldnt think of his name though.

DA

[Drumss]

Would have liked to see how we stacked up against Muchachos tenor line. We smoked every other tenor line we saw that year (that's right, I said it) and didn't get a chance to hang out with the Muchachos line, but I heard (from instructors) it would have been a good contest!

I think we would have given you guys a run for the money .... we were pretty hot that year too.... I was a rookie in 75. It was the same type of deal at Muchachos where the 3 other tenors had played together for a while...I had my work cut out to prove my worth as the 4th tenor.

[tommyfromhowardst]

I think we would have given you guys a run for the money .... we were pretty hot that year too.... I was a rookie in 75. It was the same type of deal at Muchachos where the 3 other tenors had played together for a while...I had my work cut out to prove my worth as the 4th tenor.

Then you and I sir, are kindred spirits! It is tough to be the fourth player. Twice the work, but you end up twice as good!

Yeah, we had heard Muchachos line was hot that year--even our instructor Gerry Kearby warned us about you guys. He had a lot of respect for you all back then and that was good enough for us. You guys were getting some good scores and I don't remember how we stacked up as a whole drum line but I bet it was close. Only corps we didn't beat (till CYO) in drums that year was SCV, just managed to tie them once at DCI Midwest prelims, but that just ###### them off and they pimp slapped us in the night show. If you guys got a 19.5 at CYO then you definitely beat us!! I believe the best we did that year was 18.65. We didn't think 19 was possible but oooops!

[Joe Salvatore]

By not announcing their prelim score we are where we are today as we were in August 1975. This just keeps growing and growing. Lost in the pro and con of the debate are the legitimate members of the Muchachos who saw their season lost. I cannot imagine how they felt.

No one can take away their accomplishments in 1975.

In fact, I hope those members that read all of these posts appreciate the fascination we all have with that bunch.

It was precisely because they were THAT good that we even entertain this topic ceaselessly.

I know the Bridgemen 1977 situation is different because they were scored before the DQ, but many I have spoken with indicated they had a great summer and the DQ could not take that away. I hope many of the 1975 Muchachos feel the same.

On another note, we in SCV 1989 had our own problems with a bunch of Brits who forged documents to march.

We caught the last offender just before Quarterfinals.

Yep, we had holes... check out the problems we had with the snare line drill as I seem to recall that was one of the last offenders.

[Joe Salvatore]

I think (I'm not 100% certain) that the 89 SCV dilemma was described in another post.

I believe it was one or two members....they were foreign.....they had provided

SCV with phony documents for age documentation.

SCV had done everything proper and had documents on every member...and were able to prove this

to DCI's satisfaction. I do not know how the real age(s) were exposed. I believe an emergency session

was held right after the show, SCV proved their point, and was exonerated and held harmless. I believe the

individual(s) may have been charged or could have been, as well.

Was an "exception" made here, and the letter of the rule was not enforced? Yep.....however, I think

most would agree that a horrible injustice would have been done to the corps if the circumstances were not

considered, and was certainly different then any other overage case in drum corps history.

GB

We were totally unaware, Gail, staff, and members.

DCI was approach by British and US Customs.

I cannot recall how many were involved from the horn-line but I do know 1 snare was involved.

The really frustrating part for us as members was that after the first few were implicated and deported to the custody of US Customs, at least 1 or 2 more continued the ruse thinking they had made it in the clear. My recollection was that the last person was removed the day before or the day of Quarterfinals and the snare was remove just the week before (note the snare drill on the video).

We had a really long talk from Ralph after the incident involving the removal of the snare player.