So cal Corps

[GuyW]

oops....I must be going insane...

On a more positive note, perhaps you can educate us on building it "right"....

Edited October 3, 2007 by GuyW

[dsb2007]

Hopefuly this name change from Div II/III will give people a different view. I know when I would try to recruit and would say Div III people would change from being intrested to not wanting any info anymore. MAYBE we'll see better results this winter during auditions.

:) My thoughts exactly. :)

[caviesdblbass84]

I want to preface this by admitting that I can be overly simplistic at times.. and perhaps I don't have a grasp on the technicalities involved in the following suggestion, but I'm of the mind that if you want something badly enough, you go out there and give it! (as my Dad says). I want to also preface this by telling you I've had 2 vodkas on an empty stomach - LOL!

That said -

There's no shame in small numbers, but there's something I'm not 'getting' about this So. Cal. Drum Corps scenario. We live in Los Angeles; the second most populated city in the country, 7th most populated city in the world, and nationally, the first-most populated suburban population - yet we have no formidable So. Cal. Jr corps.

Seeing that there are several smaller corps, wouldn't it be a more expanding experience for the members if two or three of the smaller corps merged to form one more exposed, and larger, entity?

The ego factor, naturally, forms a company front. MY corps, MY ideas, MY position. I imagine I'd hesitate to share the little 'empire' I'd worked for (I project that being a director is a day to day trial, not an ideal) one crisis at a time. But, we ask our young adults to do it; to forfeit ego and 'self' for the greater good of 'cause', and we tout that that's what we're all about in drum corps, so why draw the line there - why don't directors and corps-staff forfeit their aspirations for the 'cause'? Isn't what drum corps folks are addicted to, isn't what really keeps us going - our need to strive?

Wouldn't 3 directors (or any odd-number, for voting purposes) be just as good as one? Wouldn't it actually be less expensive, per capita, to run a full corps rather than to run an under-150 corps? I mean, if a bus holds 42 people and you need two for the 70 members you have, wouldn't it make sense to have 84 members paying their membership rates while filling empty, cost-free, seats and fuel?

As a corps is already paying for a cater-craft to make food for the corps, doesn't it make sense to utilize that 'facility' to the fullest therefore proportionately saving money - again tour fees covering actual foodstuffs but the cater-craft payments differed by the difference in memberships fees and fund-raisers? Do gymnasium floors have a cap on sleeping space? Does bingo make less money with twice as many attendees? Doesn't it stand to reason that a non-profit couldn't expand it's intake by nearly two-fold by adding only a third more members to their roster, or as I'm suggesting, to their merger?

Erm.. I'm probably only making sense to myself, so I'm gonna close.

(a big L.A.) Buh-Bye -

mick

You are so correct about the EGOS nothing good will happen until the Adults realize that this is for the kids not therself yes we may be feeding up north to the big boys but if all pulled together and just put A program together that will keep these kids from 3-5 years I am being honest when I look at these corps at shows all the kids are great but there is A difference when IMPULSE comes onto the field. VK no uniforms, GOLD, MYSTAKAL,and others I might not be correct but I think most of the staff has come from IMPULSE for these corps, If So. Cal wants to make it to INDIANA for the next 11 years the adults are going to have to grow up and if DCI does what they did for housing out here there might not be enough housing for all of our little 50 member corps. I do believe if we pooled together we could come up with A Div. 1 corps (DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ACADEMY WHO ALMOST MADE FINALS this year) no little corps taking away from each other

So you all think about it NO MORE INSTRUCTORS SAYING IF YOU MARCH IN IMPULSES GUARD YOU CAN'T BE IN THE HIGH SCHOOL GUARD I TEACH.

I AM SO SORRY IF I HURT ANYONES FEELINGS BUT THINK OF THE KIDS YOU ARE ALL ADULTS MOST OF YOU HAVE MARCHED AND I DO FEEL THAT IMPULSE WILL BE THE CORPS THAT SURVIVES.

BENO

[84BDsop]

You are so correct about the EGOS nothing good will happen until the Adults realize that this is for the kids not therself yes we may be feeding up north to the big boys but if all pulled together and just put A program together that will keep these kids from 3-5 years I am being honest when I look at these corps at shows all the kids are great but there is A difference when IMPULSE comes onto the field. VK no uniforms, GOLD, MYSTAKAL,and others I might not be correct but I think most of the staff has come from IMPULSE for these corps, If So. Cal wants to make it to INDIANA for the next 11 years the adults are going to have to grow up and if DCI does what they did for housing out here there might not be enough housing for all of our little 50 member corps. I do believe if we pooled together we could come up with A Div. 1 corps (DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ACADEMY WHO ALMOST MADE FINALS this year) no little corps taking away from each other

So you all think about it NO MORE INSTRUCTORS SAYING IF YOU MARCH IN IMPULSES GUARD YOU CAN'T BE IN THE HIGH SCHOOL GUARD I TEACH.

I AM SO SORRY IF I HURT ANYONES FEELINGS BUT THINK OF THE KIDS YOU ARE ALL ADULTS MOST OF YOU HAVE MARCHED AND I DO FEEL THAT IMPULSE WILL BE THE CORPS THAT SURVIVES.

BENO

I think the only staff crossover was Impulse to Velvet Knights. Not sure about Gold's staff. Mystikal and VK have had some staffers that came from SoCal Dream.

Velvet Knights DID have uniforms....they all wore the same thing....they just weren't uniforms in the sense that they resembles Academy, SCV, etc. If anything, it hearkened back to their 82-83 uniforms....Panama hats and tacky Hawaiian shirts.

While I once thought it might be feasible to combine the smaller corps into a big one, that would destroy what is turning into a thriving region for corps, regardless of the performance quality...within a 50 mile radius, SoCal has EIGHT corps either on the field or in the planning stages (Impulse, Gold, Mystikal, Velvet Knights, Pacific Crest, and Kingsmen StarCorps in the Jr ranks, SoCal Dream and my new one out of Granada Hills on teh Sr side)..plus I saw in another thread that there are 2 drum lines in teh region that are thinking about adding brass to their program....that would make TEN corps in a relatively small area.

Even as it stands now (taking away those 2 drum lines, and Kingsmen Star and my group, some none of us have fielded yet), what other small region in the US has SIX operating corps in such a small area?

This is the basis for MY contention that the SoCal area is saturated in the Jr ranks....Sr not so much. Combine that with the multitude of distracti0ons in the region outside of corps, and there are some of the factors that keep the numbers down.

I remember once reading that the Canadian drive to get a corps into finals was so strong in the 80s and 90s, it got Dutch Boy in, but at the expense of other Canadian corps, because the more skilled members went to Kitchener and the kids that stays behind couldn't pick up the load (someone correct me on this one if I'm wrong...I read it in DCWorld years ago).

Do we REALLY want to do that to SoCal???

[/soapbox]

BTW....if you ARE who your screenname implies....my condolences to your lumbar spine from 84....that could NOT have been comfortable! Especially since the top basses were bigger back then!!

but hey, you got a GREAT closeup near the end Ozark!!

[Mickk3]

You are so correct about the EGOS nothing good will happen until the Adults realize that this is for the kids not therself yes we may be feeding up north to the big boys but if all pulled together and just put A program together that will keep these kids from 3-5 years I am being honest when I look at these corps at shows all the kids are great but there is A difference when IMPULSE comes onto the field. VK no uniforms, GOLD, MYSTAKAL,and others I might not be correct but I think most of the staff has come from IMPULSE for these corps, If So. Cal wants to make it to INDIANA for the next 11 years the adults are going to have to grow up and if DCI does what they did for housing out here there might not be enough housing for all of our little 50 member corps. I do believe if we pooled together we could come up with A Div. 1 corps (DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ACADEMY WHO ALMOST MADE FINALS this year) no little corps taking away from each other

So you all think about it NO MORE INSTRUCTORS SAYING IF YOU MARCH IN IMPULSES GUARD YOU CAN'T BE IN THE HIGH SCHOOL GUARD I TEACH.

I AM SO SORRY IF I HURT ANYONES FEELINGS BUT THINK OF THE KIDS YOU ARE ALL ADULTS MOST OF YOU HAVE MARCHED AND I DO FEEL THAT IMPULSE WILL BE THE CORPS THAT SURVIVES.

BENO

I think I may have accidentally hit a sore spot. I'm not involved in any of the corps you mentioned and know nothing about them. Other than seeing one SoCal Dream rehearsal and one family-day exhibition, I haven't even seen any of the corps mentioned in this thread. I apologize if I raised demons here. I assure you it was accidental.

That said, as long as the demons are already up, I'll offer them coffee (LOL).

Taking the comment - "NO MORE INSTRUCTORS SAYING IF YOU MARCH IN IMPULSES GUARD YOU CAN'T BE IN THE HIGH SCHOOL GUARD I TEACH" - at face value (which is the only way I can take it as, again, I don't truly know who or what you're specifically referring to), if that's true that a band instructor said that to a band member, it's a cryin' shame and does appear to be ego-driven. Why would anyone in an educational position impose limitations on the experiences of their 'students'?

Out of curiosity, why is Impulse's survival in question? What's threatening their existence? Would you like cream or sugar with your demons ( ^0^ )?

[FalloutTheory05]

I think the only staff crossover was Impulse to Velvet Knights. Not sure about Gold's staff. Mystikal and VK have had some staffers that came from SoCal Dream.

Velvet Knights DID have uniforms....they all wore the same thing....they just weren't uniforms in the sense that they resembles Academy, SCV, etc. If anything, it hearkened back to their 82-83 uniforms....Panama hats and tacky Hawaiian shirts.

While I once thought it might be feasible to combine the smaller corps into a big one, that would destroy what is turning into a thriving region for corps, regardless of the performance quality...within a 50 mile radius, SoCal has EIGHT corps either on the field or in the planning stages (Impulse, Gold, Mystikal, Velvet Knights, Pacific Crest, and Kingsmen StarCorps in the Jr ranks, SoCal Dream and my new one out of Granada Hills on teh Sr side)..plus I saw in another thread that there are 2 drum lines in teh region that are thinking about adding brass to their program....that would make TEN corps in a relatively small area.

Even as it stands now (taking away those 2 drum lines, and Kingsmen Star and my group, some none of us have fielded yet), what other small region in the US has SIX operating corps in such a small area?

This is the basis for MY contention that the SoCal area is saturated in the Jr ranks....Sr not so much. Combine that with the multitude of distracti0ons in the region outside of corps, and there are some of the factors that keep the numbers down.

I remember once reading that the Canadian drive to get a corps into finals was so strong in the 80s and 90s, it got Dutch Boy in, but at the expense of other Canadian corps, because the more skilled members went to Kitchener and the kids that stays behind couldn't pick up the load (someone correct me on this one if I'm wrong...I read it in DCWorld years ago).

Do we REALLY want to do that to SoCal???

[/soapbox]

BTW....if you ARE who your screenname implies....my condolences to your lumbar spine from 84....that could NOT have been comfortable! Especially since the top basses were bigger back then!!

but hey, you got a GREAT closeup near the end Ozark!!

Dont forget althought they are half from Japan, Yamato is also based out of So Cal in Riverside so that would make it 11 corps not counting the 2 drumlines and your Sr. corps and Esperanza was also around for awhile.

Also I know like I stated before, that DivIII wasnt very appealing so that also made student from various high school not even consider a certain corps and I know also that the reason SOME people dont like it when their students/kids march Impulse is because they think its a joke, they dont think their kids will get anything from it...I have heard all that stuff before I used to love Impulse and brag about going to audition or wanting to march there and I would just get made fun of for chosing them and even though I totally disagree with that because Drum Corps is Drum Corps its ALL hard work and dedication not just the Big boys....We are all a big family working for a common goal each and every corps out there...none of them go out there wanting to lose, we all want a shot at the glory but in the end were all there for the experience and the family atmosphere!!!!!!!!

I hope that makes sense haha it sounded pretty good in my head!

Edited October 4, 2007 by FalloutTheory05

[CrunchyTenor]

Consider that when a hypothetical local corps gets enough kids (who are willing to march a smaller corps) to compete, the more experienced, talented (and wealthier?) kids are recruited by "World class" corps (I call this "the DCI cannibalism model"), necessitating a continual struggle for membership and survival.

If the hypothetical corps gets past THAT hurdle and becomes successful, it starts auditioning out of area kids ("DCI cannibalism model") and then the locals don't make the line.

WHY should any local kid commit to all the work of building up a corps, when he/she has no guarantee of reaping the benefits of that work? (DC values? the DCI cannibalism model promotes "immediate gratification", not a real-world work ethic)

SoCal needs a NEW model ("local corps") where local kids commit to SoCal corps, and the corps commit to the locals...

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...

Taking into consideration that it's 27 years later, we faced a formidable task when we revitalized VK starting in 1980. The corps was coming off a disappointing 33rd place in 1979, Anaheim kingsmen were still around, West Coast Express was competing, and there was always the threat of a kid wanting to march in SCV, BD and Freelancers.

It wasn't easy, but we were able to create a core group of kids in that inactive season of 1980 (if you call doing every parade we could get, and every performance available as well "inactive") that carried the corps on their backs all the way to finals in 1984. They committed because the staff committed to them.

I still believe they made finals in 5 years because they didn't know they couldn't!

Garry in Vegas

[84BDsop]

I still believe they made finals in 5 years because they didn't know they couldn't!

There's something to be said for that kind of thinking....just do your job as best you can and the placements will come.

[neholgate]

There's something to be said for that kind of thinking....just do your job as best you can and the placements will come.

Key to success

Keep the hype, keep the kids.

Positive attitudes required.

Keep them active, keep their interest.

DC isn't just summer...it should be year round.

Most of the kids that took VK to finals grew up in the organization.

DC is family.

Nancy

VK Alumni

[Tansea]

Okay, are these real drum corps or imaginary ones?