No Love for JAZZ ?

[liebot]

Both are good points...is it expensive to march? YES, however, myself and many other low income individuals made it work every year. Personally, I took a year off school to make it happen, others have better luck finding sponsors. In fact, the majority of people I marched with had at least a portion of their dues coming from sponsorships of varying kinds.

So, yes - the money is a large factor, but let's not downplay the fact that drum corps is hard, really hard. Most people would rather hang out by the pool than do drum corps, because it's not for everyone. It could be the cost, or it could be that Americans are lazy. Every band I work with is amazed by drum corps and their excellence, but it is very rare to find a group that is willing to work like they would need to in order to reach that level. You say money, I say sloth.

Word.

[monoemono]

I think it's worth adding to this discussion a clarification of what exactly we mean when we say "Jazz", especially as relates to drum corps. I've always thought that DCI corps have had a very particular slant when it comes to Jazz, given the nature of the activity. First off, in this discussion I've seen many names thrown around--Maynard Ferguson, Bill Watrous, Stan Kenton, Buddy Rich--in relation to Jazz and drum corps. Obviously what all these names have in common is that they are Big Band leaders, and even at that a very distinct segment of Big Band--not 1930's or 1940's swing, necessarily, but the sort of arty, ensemble-driven Big Band that dominated the 60's and 70's.

This period and style suited drum corps very well for several reasons, the first of which is the ensemble emphasis. Solos are shorter, and are therefore relegated to an "icing on the cake" sort of role--which is good, as the same "written out", non-improvised solos can be played night after night without boring everyone. Second, there is a lot of emphasis on Latin stuff, which for whatever reason works really well for corps. Think of your top three "Jazz" tunes for drum corps, and I bet there's a Malaguena or a La Fiesta in there somewhere. Third, there was such an emphasis on the high-note screamer in these bands--pretty much the ultimate DCI cliche when it comes to corps we think of as "Jazz corps".

Now let's think of the stuff that isn't talked about a lot--if you asked people out of this context to name some Jazz musicians off the top of their head, they are more likely to start with Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Art Blakey, Wynton Marsalis--not the Big Band folks mentioned earlier. This would seem the more "mainstream" idea of Jazz. So why does this music not play well with drum corps? The obvious thought is that this small group idiom emphasizes improvisation, something that does not creep into the regimented genre of corps very often. So you have to work much harder to "drum corps-ise" the music (our 1993 show was a good example--how do you write bebop heads for a drum corps? You kind of have to "big band" them first). I think there's a reason this hasn't been done much, and that is that it's really hard and not really obvious how to write straight-ahead Jazz for DCI.

Which brings me around (FINALLY!) to the question at hand. Why have Jazz corps been chopping up old classics in a blenderized arrangement? Why haven't they just played _________________ the old way again? Why are they looking to non-Jazz source material for something fresh? I think the answer is that we have just worn out and run out of the obvious and the easy. 60's and 70's big band was practically made for drum corps. 1980's, 90's, 2000's Big Band? WHAT Big Band? There's very little of it left. A Maria Schnider show for DCI? Good luck! As for the entire rest of the Jazz spectrum, particularly small group stuff, I'm not sure anyone's completely figured that out just yet. To put it plain and simple, the appropriate source material has been worked to death. Time to try something new.

Hopefully all that adds something to the discussion!

[MikeD]

Not to say you are wrong, but I'm not sure I understand that answer. It's not like symphonies and orchestras are switching all of their instrumentation, even just the brass, over to Bb... there's still tons of brass (and woodwind) instruments in various keys... so why do marching bands and drum corps have to choose Bb as the designated key?

Well, the bulk of band literature is written in Bb/F, so I'd guess that plays the major role in why bands have focussed on those instruments...and why drum corps has followed suit. BTW...the DCI rule legalized any key, not just Bb/F.

[angelbugler]

There is so much jazz material out there it isn't even funny. What about some of the mood and highly progressive charts Duke Ellington was doing at the end of his life? There is so much from the Thad Jones Big band, Brubeck, Golson, Mintzer, Bill Evans, Corea thta is yet to be attempted. You are right, it's not easy so arrangers don't even try.

Heck if we go the way of electronics lets start hearing some Weather Report!! Maynard Ferguson High Voltage era anyone!???

[monoemono]

There is so much jazz material out there it isn't even funny. What about some of the mood and highly progressive charts Duke Ellington was doing at the end of his life? There is so much from the Thad Jones Big band, Brubeck, Golson, Mintzer, Bill Evans, Corea thta is yet to be attempted. You are right, it's not easy so arrangers don't even try.

Heck if we go the way of electronics lets start hearing some Weather Report!! Maynard Ferguson High Voltage era anyone!???

Wow! Imagine a Thad Jones/Mel Lewis show? That would be awesome!

[The Other Mike]

There is so much jazz material out there it isn't even funny. What about some of the mood and highly progressive charts Duke Ellington was doing at the end of his life? There is so much from the Thad Jones Big band, Brubeck, Golson, Mintzer, Bill Evans, Corea thta is yet to be attempted. You are right, it's not easy so arrangers don't even try.

Heck if we go the way of electronics lets start hearing some Weather Report!! Maynard Ferguson High Voltage era anyone!???

I vote NO.

I'm old, I'm grumpy, I hated most of the high Voltage stuff when he did it and I wasn't old back then and it still made me the grumpy person I am.

Now, how about some Woody Herman's Four Brothers.

And since we are stuck with the mics, also do the Manhatten Transfer version mixed with the horn line trading licks with the singers.

Oh wait, that would be a GOOD use of the mics.

Nevermind.................................

[arrangerx]

A Maria Schnider show for DCI? Good luck! As for the entire rest of the Jazz spectrum, particularly small group stuff, I'm not sure anyone's completely figured that out just yet. To put it plain and simple, the appropriate source material has been worked to death. Time to try something new.

Hopefully all that adds something to the discussion!

If someone decided to program a Maria Schneider show, I'd do it for free.

I daresay that most people who want "Jazz" are looking for melody, great soloists, harmonies that make us happy, along with something unexpected yet in context of the original idea.

The challenge would be for arrangers to actually ARRANGE (or compose) today's music. . . not into cookie-cutter big band charts per se, but into something that belongs on the field and synthesizes the music, stays faithful to the idea of the original music, but works in our idiom.

It's a lot of work. . . don't know how many are willing and/or able to do it. It's difficult. Obviously the icons of the activity can (and have) done it already. But who is ready for the next step?

[angelbugler]

I vote NO.

I'm old, I'm grumpy, I hated most of the high Voltage stuff when he did it and I wasn't old back then and it still made me the grumpy person I am.

Now, how about some Woody Herman's Four Brothers.

And since we are stuck with the mics, also do the Manhatten Transfer version mixed with the horn line trading licks with the singers.

Oh wait, that would be a GOOD use of the mics.

Nevermind.................................

You know on second thought, yeah.. some of that High Voltage stuff is weak but you get the gist. I know the Sacramento Freelancers tried a Chase show but it really wasnt as effective as it could have been. Can you imagine using an Echo-Plex with soloists throughout the field to get some of those great effects Chase and Don Ellis used to use??

Speaking of Don Ellis why not more of his stuff. It's ultra sophisticated! Not just the famous tunes but some of the obscure tunes he's done?? So much!! What about the compositions of Hank Levy< Rosolino? Urbie Green, More Watrous??? Not just TIger of San Pedro?

Crap why not a Bllie May show. Didn't he have a string of hit records with just Brass???

#### Nelson Riddle???

[monoemono]

It's a lot of work. . . don't know how many are willing and/or able to do it. It's difficult. Obviously the icons of the activity can (and have) done it already. But who is ready for the next step?

Me! :)

Oh, wait, I don't write charts for DCI.

[monoemono]

You know on second thought, yeah.. some of that High Voltage stuff is weak but you get the gist. I know the Sacramento Freelancers tried a Chase show but it really wasnt as effective as it could have been. Can you imagine using an Echo-Plex with soloists throughout the field to get some of those great effects Chase and Don Ellis used to use??

Speaking of Don Ellis why not more of his stuff. It's ultra sophisticated! Not just the famous tunes but some of the obscure tunes he's done?? So much!! What about the compositions of Hank Levy< Rosolino? Urbie Green, More Watrous??? Not just TIger of San Pedro?

Crap why not a Bllie May show. Didn't he have a string of hit records with just Brass???

#### Nelson Riddle???

All good ideas! The swing thing is hard in drum corps. I think some of the best examples that have been done have been listed here. But like you and some others here have said, I'm wanting things to branch out a bit.