Linda Slocum Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Championship caliber corps require certain ingredients and it is almost impossible to win without any of them. My perceived list is as follows:- Design - Member talent (read: talented rookies + member retention) - Quality Instruction My thoughts exactly... lacking a great show design, it's hard to win championships. And a great show design without the talent to pull it off has a similar effect - there's only so much you can dumb it down to make it work, and still have the show design hold up. There have been so-so show designs presented by every corps if you go back through the years, just as there have been some amazing show designs presented by every corps. Can a corps maintain a high level attitude and performance when the members aren't fully on board with the show design? Someone mentioned earlier that corps like Cadets, BD and Cavies get to pick and choose from the best rookies every year; this gives them a distinct advantage. I have to partially disagree with this one. There are many that won't consider certain corps because they feel that they don't have the right "vibe". There has to be some level of matching between the member's personality and the corps' "personality". You also have to look at trending in an area - if a local high school or college has most of its members and/or instructors affiliated with a certain corps, then any newcomers will be likely to follow in their footsteps, rather than seeking out another corps. A great staff that knows how to get the most out of members will yield results year in and year out. This is what makes this thread a bit interesting, since some of the corps have had significant staffing changes this year. Can the supposed inertia of the corps from 2007 continue if they have staffing changes? And what about those that had an off-year in 2007 but have entered 2008 with new and notable staffing talent? Seems this is what can tip the scales, both in show design and execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 > A: Competitive Inertia, Q: Why do the same corps keep winning? Why does Ohio State keep winning? Why does North Carolina keep winning? When you look at a college football poll, why do you always see ohio state, michigan, oklahoma, florida, tennessee, usc, etc.? The best performers want to win. The best performers pick a corps where they think they have the best chance to win. Take every kid from one of the top 3, and put them in the uniform of one of the bottom 3 for a year. I'm thinking that bottom 3 corps is now in at least the top 12, if not top 6. Skill gets corps into the top 12...a program that panders to the judges gets a corps into the top 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schickmeister Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) Since when does the drive to perform have ANYTHING to do with the drive to win? I could be a hell of a performer in a non-finalist corps. Edited March 20, 2008 by jts5032 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Since when does the drive to perform have ANYTHING to do with the drive to win? I could be a hell of a performer in a non-finalist corps. yes, you could....and some do...but today's attitude of "winning is everything" keeps the best the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Since when does the drive to perform have ANYTHING to do with the drive to win? I could be a hell of a performer in a non-finalist corps. Of course you could - I dont think anyone is arguing that, but I would say on average, the members of the cavaliers probably are more driven than the members of a bottom 3 corps. The kids that made the top corps probably had to do a lot more legwork to get where they are then someone in a lower corps. Are there people marching in the troopers that COULD be in the cadets? Sure... Are there people marching at BD who have bad attitudes, get yelled at, and probably would get yelled at just as much at pioneer?...probably - but again, its about averages. Average age, average ability, maturity, discipline level. Every corps has its standouts, but the last time I checked, they still all looked the same on the field on finals night (thank god) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayM Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 An endless supply of well trained and talented corpmembers transfering from lower top twelve corps keeps the free agency pipeline alive. The top four benefit from this directly. This is not to say that the staff of the top four corps are not first class also! I think you overestimate the amount of members in the top corps who have previous corps experience. I would say it's about 10 to 20 (give or take 5) percent in any given year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schickmeister Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) I think you overestimate the amount of members in the top corps who have previous corps experience. I would say it's about 10 to 20 (give or take 5) percent in any given year. Very very true. Coming from many years in a Div 2/3 corps, I was in the extreme minority. And personally, I think to say that those in a top 3 corps are more driven is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Edited March 21, 2008 by jts5032 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baristeve Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 yes, you could....and some do...but today's attitude of "winning is everything" keeps the best the best. Yeah, because people who care a lot about winning are usually better than everyone else. the members of the cavaliers probably are more driven than the members of a bottom 3 corps. obviously, you've never actually BEEN to a cavaliers rehearsal... 11:00 AM - WAKE UP 12:00 PM - STRETCH 1:00 PM - SECTIONALS 3:00 PM - SNACK 3:30 PM - BASICS 5:00 PM - ENSEMBLE 6:30 PM - EAT, PACK, LOAD... 9:30 PM - SHOW p.s. i'm not saying the cavs aren't driven are anything... but yeah they typically wake up a lot later than everyone else... and are typically never seen running back to their sets.... except for james boyer... but that goes without saying. And personally, I think to say that those in a top 3 corps are more driven is an absolutely ridiculous statement. agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Yeah, because people who care a lot about winning are usually better than everyone else.obviously, you've never actually BEEN to a cavaliers rehearsal... 11:00 AM - WAKE UP 12:00 PM - STRETCH 1:00 PM - SECTIONALS 3:00 PM - SNACK 3:30 PM - BASICS 5:00 PM - ENSEMBLE 6:30 PM - EAT, PACK, LOAD... 9:30 PM - SHOW p.s. i'm not saying the cavs aren't driven are anything... but yeah they typically wake up a lot later than everyone else... and are typically never seen running back to their sets.... except for james boyer... but that goes without saying. agreed. Lol...ok, so maybe the cavies were a bad example, but the fact is - why are they able to do that? The cold hard truth is that they have the talent, efficiency, and drive to make it work in such a short period of time. I honestly thing you guys took my post and ran the wrong way with it... Being a driven or 'dedicated' performer has more to do with how many hours you rehearse, or how fast you run back to your sets - it refers to how hard you've worked over your entire life to get that ability. Look...all I'm really try to do here is make the point is that the people in the top corps arent just there because of their god-given talent and their desire for a ring. SOMETHING else goes into it, and admitting just what that is may be painful for certain people.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baristeve Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Lol...ok, so maybe the cavies were a bad example, but the fact is - why are they able to do that? The cold hard truth is that they have the talent, efficiency, and drive to make it work in such a short period of time. I honestly thing you guys took my post and ran the wrong way with it... Being a driven or 'dedicated' performer has more to do with how many hours you rehearse, or how fast you run back to your sets - it refers to how hard you've worked over your entire life to get that ability. Look...all I'm really try to do here is make the point is that the people in the top corps arent just there because of their god-given talent and their desire for a ring. SOMETHING else goes into it, and admitting just what that is may be painful for certain people.... Just because they're more skilled doesn't necessarily mean they're more driven... AND just because a corps places higher than another doesn't necessarily mean that the corps that wins has the most skill... STAFF is really the main ingredient, imho. Particularly design staff.. but yeah, staff/instructors. I'm sure the cavalier members are very driven to succeed and whatnot, but no one can say whether they are more or less driven than any other group based solely on their consistent top 3 placements. Edited March 21, 2008 by baristeve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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