A: Competitive Inertia

[Huntington Mallets]

BD is the only corps with a different design then the others. I didn't say better, I simply said different. Good or bad, BD is not like the others this year or last Year!

Yeah, they're only just like what they put out last year, a show that is essentially a winterguard show with brass players

not a bad thing, not my thing though, and here is where biases start to kick in, so I'll leave it at that

Edited July 4, 2009 by Huntington Mallets

[HPUEuph]

I always have liked the statement that the best reload and the rest rebuild.

[Bruckner8]

So if Crown wins this year, does that throw Competitive Inertia out the window?

Thank you for resurrecting this thread; that is, for noticing that Crown is putting the theory to the ultimate test.

If Crown wins this year, the CI theory will have to be modified, just like all other theories that are disproved, or shown to be incomplete (ala, General Relativity vs Special Relativity).

The Theory will change from "a new winner will first have to come in 3rd" to "a new winner will first have to come in 4th" in a prior year.

And it will still be a valid, albeit modified theory, based on all the history.

That said, Crown will not win this year, lol. I stand behind the current theory. It's WAY too early, and history (on which CI is based) has shown that corps that win in early July can certainly lose in early August. It IS very interesting to note how Crown looks like a darling right now, and Cadets look like a villain. Maybe Hopkins' acts have finally grown tiresome. Maybe the DCI community is looking at CI and thinking "Wow, this CI guy is on to something! I had no idea we were that biased toward current winners. This Hopkins guy has been a PITA anyway. Maybe it's time to reward the 'kinder gentler Cadets', aka Crown, and put that CI theory away." It looks that way in the East right now, especially with the new spreads opening up (totally unjustified, IMO). Cadets have a better product. Crown has a better performance. (not 2+ pts better!) Crown's show is way easier than Cadets.

Same thing is happening out West with SCV (easy) and Bloo (difficult). If Bloo and Cadets step up the performance, fix a few rough spots, then SCV and Crown will be behind them, respectively. (assuming the judges use the Box 5 appropriately, and NOT use their "art.")

Crown will finish 3rd, behind BD(2) and Cadets(1), but if Cadets are really on DCI's nerves, it could go BD(1), Crown(2), Cadets(3).

No one else is in the running (wish I was wrong on that...hope so...maybe...). Note that Cadets' and Crown's products are both superior to BD, IMO. That's how strong the CI is for BD...their weak designs are overlooked b/c of the ABSOLUTELY UNDENIABLE AMAZING PERFORMANCE. It's intoxicating.

[Bruckner8]

i THINK that the competitive inertia theory is geared towards NEW champions. If that is the case, many of your examples are not actually counter examples

Correct.

[drumcorpsfan4567]

Thank you for resurrecting this thread; that is, for noticing that Crown is putting the theory to the ultimate test.

If Crown wins this year, the CI theory will have to be modified, just like all other theories that are disproved, or shown to be incomplete (ala, General Relativity vs Special Relativity).

The Theory will change from "a new winner will first have to come in 3rd" to "a new winner will first have to come in 4th" in a prior year.

And it will still be a valid, albeit modified theory, based on all the history.

That said, Crown will not win this year, lol. I stand behind the current theory. It's WAY too early, and history (on which CI is based) has shown that corps that win in early July can certainly lose in early August. It IS very interesting to note how Crown looks like a darling right now, and Cadets look like a villain. Maybe Hopkins' acts have finally grown tiresome. Maybe the DCI community is looking at CI and thinking "Wow, this CI guy is on to something! I had no idea we were that biased toward current winners. This Hopkins guy has been a PITA anyway. Maybe it's time to reward the 'kinder gentler Cadets', aka Crown, and put that CI theory away." It looks that way in the East right now, especially with the new spreads opening up (totally unjustified, IMO). Cadets have a better product. Crown has a better performance. (not 2+ pts better!) Crown's show is way easier than Cadets.

Same thing is happening out West with SCV (easy) and Bloo (difficult). If Bloo and Cadets step up the performance, fix a few rough spots, then SCV and Crown will be behind them, respectively. (assuming the judges use the Box 5 appropriately, and NOT use their "art.")

Crown will finish 3rd, behind BD(2) and Cadets(1), but if Cadets are really on DCI's nerves, it could go BD(1), Crown(2), Cadets(3).

No one else is in the running (wish I was wrong on that...hope so...maybe...). Note that Cadets' and Crown's products are both superior to BD, IMO. That's how strong the CI is for BD...their weak designs are overlooked b/c of the ABSOLUTELY UNDENIABLE AMAZING PERFORMANCE. It's intoxicating.

So you think the Cadets have the better product, or just the harder product? I'm no design expert, several people here seem to think that Crown has the superior product in terms of design (haven't seen anyone arguing that Crown has more difficulty). Also it seems like Crown may have been listening to you about the brass book thing (lol) and their brass book is not solely in Bb major this year (some but not all is).

[Tez]

Thank you for resurrecting this thread; that is, for noticing that Crown is putting the theory to the ultimate test.

If Crown wins this year, the CI theory will have to be modified, just like all other theories that are disproved, or shown to be incomplete (ala, General Relativity vs Special Relativity).

The Theory will change from "a new winner will first have to come in 3rd" to "a new winner will first have to come in 4th" in a prior year.

And it will still be a valid, albeit modified theory, based on all the history.

That said, Crown will not win this year, lol. I stand behind the current theory. It's WAY too early, and history (on which CI is based) has shown that corps that win in early July can certainly lose in early August. It IS very interesting to note how Crown looks like a darling right now, and Cadets look like a villain. Maybe Hopkins' acts have finally grown tiresome. Maybe the DCI community is looking at CI and thinking "Wow, this CI guy is on to something! I had no idea we were that biased toward current winners. This Hopkins guy has been a PITA anyway. Maybe it's time to reward the 'kinder gentler Cadets', aka Crown, and put that CI theory away." It looks that way in the East right now, especially with the new spreads opening up (totally unjustified, IMO). Cadets have a better product. Crown has a better performance. (not 2+ pts better!) Crown's show is way easier than Cadets.

Same thing is happening out West with SCV (easy) and Bloo (difficult). If Bloo and Cadets step up the performance, fix a few rough spots, then SCV and Crown will be behind them, respectively. (assuming the judges use the Box 5 appropriately, and NOT use their "art.")

Crown will finish 3rd, behind BD(2) and Cadets(1), but if Cadets are really on DCI's nerves, it could go BD(1), Crown(2), Cadets(3).

No one else is in the running (wish I was wrong on that...hope so...maybe...). Note that Cadets' and Crown's products are both superior to BD, IMO. That's how strong the CI is for BD...their weak designs are overlooked b/c of the ABSOLUTELY UNDENIABLE AMAZING PERFORMANCE. It's intoxicating.

Well, at least now you admit that Crown has some kind of chance of winning. I just don't understand why you are stating these things like they are absolute fact (Cadets show is more difficult, BD's design is weak etc...) They are your opinions and that's fine, but you state them like you have more expertise than the judges. I, for one think Crown's product is better than the Cadets, and Joe Allison (one of DCI's most respected judges) seems to agree with me seeing how his GE Music rep. score was .7 higher for Crown than Cadets. And it's not just him, Crown has been consistently beating the Cadets in GE by a greater margin than the performance captions. Now, according to your theory, Crown's product must be far, far superior to the Cadets' product to overcome so much competitive inertia., yet you think their product is inferior. I just think they are calling it like they see it.

[Tez]

So you think the Cadets have the better product, or just the harder product? I'm no design expert, several people here seem to think that Crown has the superior product in terms of design (haven't seen anyone arguing that Crown has more difficulty). Also it seems like Crown may have been listening to you about the brass book thing (lol) and their brass book is not solely in Bb major this year (some but not all is).

I will argue that Crown has at least equal difficulty when you factor in the body movement by the members.

[drumcorpsfan4567]

I will argue that Crown has at least equal difficulty when you factor in the body movement by the members.

Ok well I'll admit I can't really judge demand as I'm not a brass player so I don't know how the physical movements of members in either show affect their brass playing (also I only watched Cadets once).

[Tez]

Ok well I'll admit I can't really judge demand as I'm not a brass player so I don't know how the physical movements of members in either show affect their brass playing (also I only watched Cadets once).

Well the Cadets have a ton of fast drill while playing... that is really difficult. Crown has many body movements and dancing while playing, or just before playing. That is also really difficult. Plus, it's not like Crown doesn't do normal marching and playing at fast tempos/large step sizes. Check out what they are doing near the end of Sensemaya.

[Matt_S]

Thank you for resurrecting this thread; that is, for noticing that Crown is putting the theory to the ultimate test.

If Crown wins this year, the CI theory will have to be modified, just like all other theories that are disproved, or shown to be incomplete (ala, General Relativity vs Special Relativity).

The Theory will change from "a new winner will first have to come in 3rd" to "a new winner will first have to come in 4th" in a prior year.

And it will still be a valid, albeit modified theory, based on all the history.

So even if the theory is proven wrong, it doesn't mean that the theory isn't correct? You'll forgive me if I have a chuckle at that.

So what if, say, Boston Crusaders put it all together next year and win the title. Will you then modify the theory to include corps that finish fifth or better? At what point do you realize it's simply easier to say "a corps is unlikely to win for the first time without spending a few years in contention, and in order to contend a corps needs to hire and retain a talented staff." Neither part of that statement is at all remarkable, and yet it encompasses everything said in the original post.

It seems to me the only truly unique claim made by CI is the rigid adherence to the significance of finishing third or better. If you're so willing to abandon that requirement in the event of a Crown championship, it only serves to illustrate the fact that you don't have actually have a theory. You have a collection of interesting observations, observations which already come with their fair share of exceptions. There's nothing scientific to this, there's no predictive power; Your first post in the thread basically just says 'this is what has happened so far', and you're most recent post basically says 'if something different happens then something different will have happened'.

The keys to success - that it won't happen all at once, you have to build a program up before it will win a championship, and that it's best to build a program with a consistent staff - are common to all competitive activities. Approach any drum corps fan, and they'll agree on each point without ever having heard of CI. This 'theory' is honestly just a pretentious way of stating what we all already know, and I'm boggled that it's caught on the way that it has as something legitimate.