Instructor's caucus

[Dale Bari]

No..I believe the Instructors Caucus hung him out to dry before he even arrived. Not their fault...Tim's ideas threatened their recent decisions regarding the direction for the activity.

I still stand by my remarks that Tim was indeed spitting into A Mighty Wind. (love that movie by the way)

OK, we all get that now.

I think you were a victim of making TOO obscure a reference, succumbing to "Dennis Miller Syndrome", where you try to make humor out of baffling the audience through the most obscure reference possible.

As an aside, you're giving the Instructors' Caucus a pass with the "Not their fault..." tag. Their hanging him out to dry IS their fault. Now, you may say it is unreasonable to believe they would come anywhere near passing his ideas. After all, it's human nature for them to behave that way. Your words, "Tim's ideas threatened their most recent decisions," are true.

But to say they "hung him out to dry", then dismiss it with "Not their fault", is awfully charitable of you, not to mention a little puzzling.

[Tom Brace]

OK, we all get that now.

I think you were a victim of making TOO obscure a reference, succumbing to "Dennis Miller Syndrome", where you try to make humor out of baffling the audience through the most obscure reference possible.

As an aside, you're giving the Instructors' Caucus a pass with the "Not their fault..." tag. Their hanging him out to dry IS their fault. Now, you may say it is unreasonable to believe they would come anywhere near passing his ideas. After all, it's human nature for them to behave that way. Your words, "Tim's ideas threatened their most recent decisions," are true.

But to say they "hung him out to dry", then dismiss it with "Not their fault", is awfully charitable of you, not to mention a little puzzling.

Let me help. It's not their fault. If you are attempting to convince someone (persuasive speaking) and you identify the audience as hostile (most of us did before Tim even stepped into the room) you as the person trying to persuade succeed or fail.

The "its not their fault" is referring to their current state of mind. They have arrived at their opinions and conclusions prior to entering the room. They had ample time to read the proposals before entering the room. Again, they did their job to prepare for consideration of all the proposals given. (not just Tim's).

So...the floor is open to Tim. He could have explored many options. In fact, he could have sensed that this approach he took wasn't going to result in the outcome he wanted. He could have scored points by simply stating, "Hey folks, before we get started with this, do any of you really think the proposals I had submitted stand a chance of passing this year?" Get the end result out of the way. Then engage..."well, I didn't think so either. Do you mind if we just sit and discuss the overall direction of the activity and allow you to hear my concern which is shared by others and how maybe we can work together to make sure DCI just doesn't become summer BOA?" Again, once the ground is plowed a bit...look for a point where a proposal might fall upon fertile ground. Even the parables speak of seeds that fall upon the rocks and on the desert as compared to seeds falling on furtile ground. It's not up to the ground to become fertile, it's up to the farmer to make it fertile.

In negiotiative strategies when attempting to persuade someone hostile to your ideas, one of the first thing explored should be to disarm. It is used in CS all the time. Disarm. Listen. Show empathy. Look for opportunities. As questions. Ask the customer for possible solutions. Evaluate. Attempt to reach compromise. Explore consensus.

I believe Tim's best avenue into this group would be one simple proposal based on how the use of electronics should be open to evaluation by the judging panel. I believe their might be some furtile ground on that issue believe it or not. But, when it's wrapped in all of the bias of the proposals presented, a possibly good and fair idea doesn't stand a chance with a hostile audience. You, as the presenter have given the audience permission to dismiss you. It's not their fault. You didn't prepare well enough.

Those would be my comments.

[kusankusho]

Hey Jim, you're not fooling anyway buddy !! LOL

Yeah - I know....

OT - I'm hoping to head out to a Dutch day-camp sometime soon. Hope I see you there, Old Geezer!

[MikeD]

Hopkins was discussing the development of Cadets show for the crowd. He was asked about the changes made to the narration, crowd reactions, etc. Tim asked him whether the design staff spent anytime outside the 40s when developing the narration. He asked "Outside the 40s?". Tim responded, "Yes, the 40 yard lines, where 2/3 of the audience is sitting, (pause) and cannot hear the narration." He did not respond, and the judge leading the session said that he guessed he (Hopkins) answered the question.

So, I guess Hopkins has selective hearing. He heard the first part, asked for clarification, then evidently didn't hear the second part.

Now, it's irrelevant who the characters are in this example. But to simply ignore a question tells me that there's no answer, or the respondant can't answer because they don't know.

I'll take staging for $2000, Alex.

Garry in Vegas

So he asked a loaded question in a confrontational style yet you expect a civil response? Not to mention a bogus assertion....I was between the 15 and 20 at Giant's Stadium and heard the narration just fine, as did the old time St Rita's folks I sat near and was talking to.

.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

so it's hoisting...the word...you all don't like the word.

so how about...providing a platform for

or...giving voice to...

or providing a means for

better?

Because that's what I'm getting at. I never alluded that the Blue Stars sought gain from giving Tim the opportunity.

By hoist I meant giving Tim a platform to address the instructors caucus.

Without the signature of a corps director, Tim doesn't get to submit the proposals in the first place.

I do believe Tim should attempt again if he can secure a drector's signature as others have stated. It never hurts to be challenged if you have a strong case.

However, if Tim's intent is to actually change things...he would most likely have to begin with a grassroots effort to build a coalition of instructors to help support or at least help him get his points out there for a more full consideration.

That may have been part of the frustration...some speak as if the instructors caucus didn't give Tim full consideration. I believe that was all that was asked for.

OK, now is understand our miscommunication. To me, hoisted means more than the definitions you give here. To me, hoisted is to raise up as a champion, as a team might hoist their coach after winning a championship.

[corpsreps]

So he asked a loaded question in a confrontational style yet you expect a civil response? Not to mention a bogus assertion....I was between the 15 and 20 at Giant's Stadium and heard the narration just fine, as did the old time St Rita's folks I sat near and was talking to.

.

Giants Stadium is a closed stadium at both ends. The acoustics are different in different venues.

Were you sitting up high? I know when I've sat low outside the 30s I often can't hear much coming out of the speakers. One show last year I was sitting near the 10 in the second row. We would hear the audience react to the Bluecoats narration but no one in the area where I was could really tell what was going on. People around me were wondering what was funny at the "Drop Your Weapons" line because we couldn't hear any of it but we could hear the center of the crowd laugh.

[Slow Adam]

People around me were wondering what was funny at the "Drop Your Weapons" line because we couldn't hear any of it but we could hear the center of the crowd laugh.

Illegal use of reality. 5 yard penalty.

[dbg]

Giants Stadium is a closed stadium at both ends. The acoustics are different in different venues.

Were you sitting up high? I know when I've sat low outside the 30s I often can't hear much coming out of the speakers. One show last year I was sitting near the 10 in the second row. We would hear the audience react to the Bluecoats narration but no one in the area where I was could really tell what was going on. People around me were wondering what was funny at the "Drop Your Weapons" line because we couldn't hear any of it but we could hear the center of the crowd laugh.

Before amplification I had been to many shows were I sat near the 20 yard line and even the 10 yard line and hadn't been able to hear the pit or even a brass soloist on occasions. So I personally see it as just a biased negative arguement againsts amped narration

[audiodb]

The point is that PA speakers are directional devices, significantly more so than brass or percussion instruments, and to a degree where, in many cases, spectators seated outside of the center section cannot hear them.

My personal experience - from the lower deck, you miss most of the typical PA contribution seated outside the 40s, and what you do get is mostly bass. Thus, vocals become unintelligible, and most of the melodic pit instrumentation is lost. It's a function of angle of incidence, so in large stadiums, where seating extends back farther (like Giants Stadium), the effect is not as pronounced.

[Tom Brace]

The point is that PA speakers are directional devices, significantly more so than brass or percussion instruments, and to a degree where, in many cases, spectators seated outside of the center section cannot hear them.

My personal experience - from the lower deck, you miss most of the typical PA contribution seated outside the 40s, and what you do get is mostly bass. Thus, vocals become unintelligible, and most of the melodic pit instrumentation is lost. It's a function of angle of incidence, so in large stadiums, where seating extends back farther (like Giants Stadium), the effect is not as pronounced.

so maybe DCI should allow people to sit on other people's lab between the 40s? Could be fun for awhile. Then the legs would start to fall asleep.

well, when DCIs attendance drops low enough that they will only have to seat people within the 40s it will no longer be an issue. So, really we only have one more year of this acoustical hassle. </sarcasm>