Breaking Rank

[jdostie]

another example that proves my last post. i hope your kids are smart enough to teach themselves lessons and teach themselves that there are worst things in this world than getting tripped on a nice day when he has been graced with a bands musical performance. the kid probably wont even remember the incident when hes playing nintendo the next day home "sick" from school.

i am so glad you would try to drive a low budget organization into the ground over a scraped knee.

you are a true american.

There are worse things in the world . . . AND, the tuba player should not have done it. (though it was funny).

The fact that the kid did not get seriously hurt does not mean that the tuba players actions were wreckless and might have caused serious injury.

When we act, we are responsible for our actions - for what does happen as a result - and what may happen, that's why drunk driving is a crime, not

just getting into an accident while drunk.

We always talked about running over whomever broke ranks, but the assumption was:

1) we were marching at the time

2) we'd have to move out of our place in formation to avoid hitting the person

3) the person had the intellect to understand that they were likely to be run over (say a judge or other adult who should know better).

This kid knew better - that he should not be doing what he was, but maybe not that it could get him hit.

A) The tuba player had to step out of his own position in ranks to trip this kid.

B) He wasn't marching at the time

C) The tuba player should have left it for an official to deal with.

[madscout96]

It's not the tuba player's job to enforce any sort of punishment on the kid.

Period.

For those of you who think that the tuba player was punishing the kid... well you don't have to see it that way. You could say that the tuba player was enforcing a policy that the band has in regards to keeping a safe distance between performers and audience members. The kid didn't know how important that was, but he does now.

The parents are equally at fault, but the tuba player had no right in even TOUCHING that kid.

I can see why you and others don't like that he tripped him, but the tuba player has every right to touch him if he goes into his space. Maybe he could have grabbed him, removed him, and said "PLEASE KEEP A SAFE DISTANCE AWAY FROM US AND DO NOT GO THROUGH OUR RANKS AGAIN".

This "law" of breaking ranks in corps and bands is utter crap.

Sure, there SHOULD be respect but (especially talking about small children here) it's not the performer's duty to enforce the respect.

I'll also ask, who should enforce it? Maybe they don't have enough staff available. Maybe the only staff person there was the director. I imagine they don't have the financial means to put a security guard every 20 feet or so on the perimeter like they do at NBA games. So they have to enforce it themselves.

There might have been better things to do than trip him, but doing nothing would have been much worse. Not only does this kid know not to mess around like that, but everyone else who saw it knows!

Edited May 9, 2008 by madscout96

[SuperSmashBrothers]

This "law" of breaking ranks in corps and bands is utter crap.

and there shouldnt be a law for Breaking and Entering on private property either! The whole human race should run free! Do whatever the #### you want guys because we dont respect boundaries anymore!

so youre telling me that if some random kid decided to run into your house and just do that... run around your house... you wouldnt grab him by the arm and throw him out? you would be nice about it right? "oh, please child, please leave. i do not know what you are doing in here but you should be respectful of my personal space." even if you yelled at the kid, words can be just as painful as a boot in the a-- out the door ESPECIALLY in this day and age.

great plan. lets all be polite for now on.

[CanadianDirector]

FIRST: At my office I am not able to view the video, so perhaps what I am saying is in general terms of "Breaking Ranks"

As I understand the law in my area:

Child (minor under 18 yrs. of age) running in a direction, tuba player extends foot to trip (this is intent), child falls (apparently no injury), now here is where it gets tricky.....If the child was running and the intention was to stop him by tripping, knowing that the interference would result in child being stopped and POSSIBLY causing harm........Tuba player is guilty of assault.....like it or not, justified or not until an investigation and/or court battle, said tuba player would be charged. Now in reality, probably no officer is going to lay a charge like that....however remember that not everyone (and I mean the general society) understands that "breaking ranks" is a no no. I would believe that everyone would believe it to be rude, but rudeness is not a defense for assault. If the Tuba player was in no immediate danger by the actions of a child, he has no right to inflict any punishment (regardless of traditions) unless it is clearly stated in either a criminal code or by-law saying that "breaking ranks of any marching organization may be met with restraint or force to impede such action" I know of no where in my travels that has such a law. I do think that yes the parents should have attended to their child better, but....with all the negative publicity, possible charges/lawsuits, letters to sponsors or sponsors seeing such actions on the internet...as a business why would I give my money to a group or to an association that not only condones violence but encourages it?????? Just some food for thought from the "non drum corps/band perspective" As a band/corps person, 1. My son (5 yrs. old) would not do that. 2. if he ever got away from us to do that, there would be consequences. 3. be sure that the band director would have heard from me aboout the "threat" that my 5 yr. old had on a whole group of uniformed persons to be assaulted that way and 4. He would be made to apologize to the director and taught the error of his ways, in a non violent manner.

PLEASE PEOPLE: do not punish the child for the sins of the parents.

[raphael18]

I think the increase in incidents of people breaking rank is directly related to the change in demographic in the stands. Most bands don't enforce such a policy, and therefore they do not understand it (among other niceties that are unique to drum corps). For that reason, they need to be educated as to proper etiquette at shows.

Now, who is going to educate these people? In my mind, the corps belongs to the members (and past members), and it is therefore the members duty to establish their corps presence, both on and off the field. This was much more an issue during the days when we would line up for retreat (thinking back, I did a lot of silent bonding with other corps members that way), and parades. In this world no one is going to give you respect, you have to take it.

This difference in mentality is what separates 'hardcore' corps from fluffy bands. Maybe this mentality isn't as common in the mainstream mentality as it once was...but I think it should be.

Consider this, when corps lined their horns up for retreat the brass and battery would each leave one sentry. Now, do you think those members were left for decoration, or perhaps to enforce the corps boundaries?

[drumlaw80]

The only rational solution is to make the idiotic tradition illegal, before someone gets hurt and a corps gets sued into folding. We have lost enough DCI corps.

[SuperSmashBrothers]

There are worse things in the world . . . AND, the tuba player should not have done it. (though it was funny).

The fact that the kid did not get seriously hurt does not mean that the tuba players actions were wreckless and might have caused serious injury.

When we act, we are responsible for our actions - for what does happen as a result - and what may happen, that's why drunk driving is a crime, not

just getting into an accident while drunk.

back in the day it wasnt a crime, in many nations it still isnt a crime. this was an adaptation to our american values. we all needed to make sure our 2.3 children survived when they were out driving their Volvos and BMWs around 2 in the morning, or our dog and cat didnt get run over because they ran outside to take a tinkle, or our white picket fence didnt get driven into.

Edited May 9, 2008 by SuperSmashBrothers

[Perry S]

Having a member, in uniform, tripping a little kid for ANY reason is unexcusable and a TERRIBLE representation of a band or corps.

Having a child behave like this is a TERRIBLE reflection on the parents raising of that child.

[raphael18]

As I understand the law in my area:

Honestly, if you were the parent you wouldn't go for criminal charges - you don't get any money that way. Instead, if the kid had required medical treatment, you go after the group's insurance carrier, that's where the money is. Incarceration is detrimental to recovering for damages suffered. Arguably, the court will also take the fact that the kid was where he shouldn't have been, and weigh in whether it was foreseeable that some reaction would result. Therefore, the judgment could be reduced significantly if the court finds that the kids failed to mitigate the damages by acting properly.

In addition, it would depend on the age of the member who tripped the kid.

do not punish the child for the sins of the parents.

One of the problems with modern society is the hesitance to hold the individual who performs the act liable. Look at Columbine, the two guys actually left videos stating that it had nothing to do with their parents or the music they were listening to - in fact, they remarked on how loving their families were. Think back, would you be the same person if no one had ever pulled you aside and put you in line? Sure, the parents may be responsible for not instilling values, but the kid is running through a horn block and flipping the members off...

Edited May 9, 2008 by raphael18

[jdostie]

back in the day it wasnt a crime, in many nations it still isnt a crime. this was an adaptation to our american values. we all needed to make sure our 2.3 children survived when they were out driving their Volvos and BMWs around 2 in the morning, or our dog and cat didnt get run over because they ran outside to take a tinkle, or our white picket fence didnt get driven into.

And?