shaners Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 i have not seen any live corps yet this year, and wont until this coming weekend, but i am anxious to hear about volume, and who has it! last year people would not stop raving about cadets and how insanely loud they were.... do they live up to last year? have the bluecoats built on their strong hornline from 07 ? crown, have they taken their clear brass sound and cranked the decibels? which corps have blown you back the most so far this year? ~shaners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutralNovice Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 i have not seen any live corps yet this year, and wont until this coming weekend, but i am anxious to hear about volume, and who has it!last year people would not stop raving about cadets and how insanely loud they were.... do they live up to last year? have the bluecoats built on their strong hornline from 07 ? crown, have they taken their clear brass sound and cranked the decibels? which corps have blown you back the most so far this year? ~shaners BD & SCV has some great volume with BD having the edge, though SCV is really bringing it this year! Especially in the end of their Eclipse piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presque Isle Brass Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 ...how insanely loud they were... The whole premise of this thread is such a disappointment to me. I understand - "loud" hornlines are fun to listen to and it's great to have your facial hair peeled off your face from a screaming trumpet player. But - here is my question: The mentality of almost every other section of the modern drum corps has developed to be cerebral and intelligent in ways of design and execution EXCEPT the hornline. Why is that? I realize - YES, we have B-flat horns now and YES we have 3-4 button tubas and whatever - I understand the actual developments in the equipment. But the end expectation is still the same: louder. While loud is good, a characteristic sound is better. I can't tell you how many talented euphonium and trombone players treat their marching baritone like a bass trumpet. There are so many occasions where I'll hear a tuba player red line his/her sound and distort rather than resonate. If only all of our mellophone players truly treated the instrument as what it can be: an alto voice with a beautiful french horn sound. Can it not be done? Refer to Cavaliers 2005 - incredible french horn sound from those mellophones. Our hornline caption heads are constantly searching for talented instrumentalists from colleges and universities. However, the drum corps industry is in a constant fight of validity from music professors. Why? If I were a trumpet professor and I heard 95% of the drum corps today forcing sound, I'd can the idea of drum corps altogether. Advocates of loud over characteristic sound will make all sorts of excuses - "this is not an orchestra" or "this is how drum corps is supposed to sound" or "marching instruments are designed for this sort of playing" - the list goes on and on, as I'm sure it will after I press "Add reply". As a music educator, my goal would be for the drum corps organizations to promote music and educate show-goers on what a quality brass ensemble should sound like. Indoor playing characteristics should be the same as outdoor playing characteristics. Volume can be different - for sure - but the physical way you perceive your own sound should NOT change when you step on the football field. Ok, so - I realize to this point, most people have read this post and thought, what an egotistical conservatory ########. You'd be surprised to find quite the opposite. I've just chosen to prefer a brass sound that is acceptable to educators and experts in the field of music education and performance. To adapt a Wynton Marsalis quote: "The sound most drum corps hornlines may make us feel good, like a candy bar feels good, but there's no nutrition. The foundation of any music education cannot be found in "louder and higher". That’s not how you train the ears of a musician or even a non-musician. That’s not how you lead kids into a deeper understanding of who they are or who they will be, which is even more important. We’re depriving them of a fundamental part of their educational development, and our nation is really much poorer for it." -> it may be a stretch, but there are some valid points in there. Please, discuss my comments if you wish - but do so in a cerebral fashion. The "you suck" or whatever is funny, but it's also a reflection of the replyer. If you have something to say, make it a college answer - maybe you might even change my mind - if you are convincing enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie VanDoren Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The whole premise of this thread is such a disappointment to me. I understand - "loud" hornlines are fun to listen to and it's great to have your facial hair peeled off your face from a screaming trumpet player. But - here is my question: The mentality of almost every other section of the modern drum corps has developed to be cerebral and intelligent in ways of design and execution EXCEPT the hornline. Why is that? I realize - YES, we have B-flat horns now and YES we have 3-4 button tubas and whatever - I understand the actual developments in the equipment. But the end expectation is still the same: louder. While loud is good, a characteristic sound is better. I can't tell you how many talented euphonium and trombone players treat their marching baritone like a bass trumpet. There are so many occasions where I'll hear a tuba player red line his/her sound and distort rather than resonate. If only all of our mellophone players truly treated the instrument as what it can be: an alto voice with a beautiful french horn sound. Can it not be done? Refer to Cavaliers 2005 - incredible french horn sound from those mellophones. Our hornline caption heads are constantly searching for talented instrumentalists from colleges and universities. However, the drum corps industry is in a constant fight of validity from music professors. Why? If I were a trumpet professor and I heard 95% of the drum corps today forcing sound, I'd can the idea of drum corps altogether. Advocates of loud over characteristic sound will make all sorts of excuses - "this is not an orchestra" or "this is how drum corps is supposed to sound" or "marching instruments are designed for this sort of playing" - the list goes on and on, as I'm sure it will after I press "Add reply". As a music educator, my goal would be for the drum corps organizations to promote music and educate show-goers on what a quality brass ensemble should sound like. Indoor playing characteristics should be the same as outdoor playing characteristics. Volume can be different - for sure - but the physical way you perceive your own sound should NOT change when you step on the football field. Ok, so - I realize to this point, most people have read this post and thought, what an egotistical conservatory ########. You'd be surprised to find quite the opposite. I've just chosen to prefer a brass sound that is acceptable to educators and experts in the field of music education and performance. To adapt a Wynton Marsalis quote: "The sound most drum corps hornlines may make us feel good, like a candy bar feels good, but there's no nutrition. The foundation of any music education cannot be found in "louder and higher". That’s not how you train the ears of a musician or even a non-musician. That’s not how you lead kids into a deeper understanding of who they are or who they will be, which is even more important. We’re depriving them of a fundamental part of their educational development, and our nation is really much poorer for it." -> it may be a stretch, but there are some valid points in there. Please, discuss my comments if you wish - but do so in a cerebral fashion. The "you suck" or whatever is funny, but it's also a reflection of the replyer. If you have something to say, make it a college answer - maybe you might even change my mind - if you are convincing enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) The whole premise of this thread is such a disappointment to me....[snip] Please, discuss my comments if you wish - but do so in a cerebral fashion. The "you suck" or whatever is funny, but it's also a reflection of the replyer. If you have something to say, make it a college answer - maybe you might even change my mind - if you are convincing enough! Best post I've read in a long time. Spot on. EDIT: So after reading some responses, I'd just like to make clear that I do NOT agree with the "95% of hornlines forcing sound" comment. There's a TON of quality brass instruction going on out there. I'm only agreeing that I disagree with the fans clamoring for loud hornlines above all else. Edited June 25, 2008 by Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coathope Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I agree that people should play with a characteristic sound. In my opinion, I believe that most corps do not try to technically force people to play uncharacteristically, or blatty some might say. However, I do believe that the instructors do constantly try to push the volume at which someone plays with a characteristic sound. A great example of loud with a characteristic sound is Phantom Regiment 2006 at the end of the ballad. Great, beautiful, sonorious sound resonating throughout the stadium and loud! Unfortunately, Phantom Regiment also seem to be the culprits of hornlines that play with uncharacteristic sounds. You could look at Regiment 2003 and clearly see this. Ultimately, I believe that corps tend to favor pushing the characteristic limit rather than change the sound completely. Some corps tend to have more leniency with this. 1 cent..... + 1 cent..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 i dunno about all that stuff, but I DO know that I Likes a candy bar every once in a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The whole premise of this thread is such a disappointment to me. I understand - "loud" hornlines are fun to listen to and it's great to have your facial hair peeled off your face from a screaming trumpet player. But - here is my question: The mentality of almost every other section of the modern drum corps has developed to be cerebral and intelligent in ways of design and execution EXCEPT the hornline. Why is that? I realize - YES, we have B-flat horns now and YES we have 3-4 button tubas and whatever - I understand the actual developments in the equipment. But the end expectation is still the same: louder. While loud is good, a characteristic sound is better. I can't tell you how many talented euphonium and trombone players treat their marching baritone like a bass trumpet. There are so many occasions where I'll hear a tuba player red line his/her sound and distort rather than resonate. If only all of our mellophone players truly treated the instrument as what it can be: an alto voice with a beautiful french horn sound. Can it not be done? Refer to Cavaliers 2005 - incredible french horn sound from those mellophones. Our hornline caption heads are constantly searching for talented instrumentalists from colleges and universities. However, the drum corps industry is in a constant fight of validity from music professors. Why? If I were a trumpet professor and I heard 95% of the drum corps today forcing sound, I'd can the idea of drum corps altogether. Advocates of loud over characteristic sound will make all sorts of excuses - "this is not an orchestra" or "this is how drum corps is supposed to sound" or "marching instruments are designed for this sort of playing" - the list goes on and on, as I'm sure it will after I press "Add reply". Well said, all of it. I think the best corps try to utilize the right balances, blends, and artistic approaches to phrasing, style, articulation, and tone. The best corps can certainly put out the volume. I was at the Toledo show. Boston probably came across as the loudest, but that's because they were constantly coming at you. Bluecoats don't do that as much, but when they do hit you, like in "The Boxer" (end of ballad) it is as powerful as anyone. The Cadets are more refined as well, but boy when they hit you it is a wall of sound, but also well balanced and controlled. Troopers opening impact is about as loud as anyone on the field this year. Judging from the Toledo show, if volume is what you're looking for, then Boston was likely the winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToferVis Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I applaud you sir, very good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Please, discuss my comments if you wish - but do so in a cerebral fashion. The "you suck" or whatever is funny, but it's also a reflection of the replyer. If you have something to say, make it a college answer - maybe you might even change my mind - if you are convincing enough! Im not going to say you suck... Im not going to say you're wrong Im also NOT going to give you a cerebral answer Im just going to say ... I. dont. care. I mean that in the most polite way possible....seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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