2008 Cadets show

[Jeff Ream]

this is what irks me about the pro-narration crowd...

Honestly...do you think we really want to hate the Cadets? We don't...I've stated time and time again that the Cadets were my favorite corps for over 20 years...when you were still in diapers, I was out screaming for Garfield...

you have no idea how narration affects some people...none. You either like narration...your brain can separate the narration from the show, allowing you to enjoy the music, or you a brainless, kool-aid drinking honk, and the Cadets can do no wrong for you. Some of us CAN'T SEPARATE THE NARRATION FROM THE SHOW!! It's just how our brain works. You have no idea how much I'd like to be able to separate and ignore narration from shows...ya know what? I can't. A lot of people can't.

Crown and Bloo's narration last year was like a mosquito buzzing around my ears. did I like it? not particularly. At least it was short, to the point, and it actually emphasized up coming music hits. Cadets narration was like a jackhammer. You could hear other stuff besides the jackhammer if you concentrated real hard, but the focus of noise was the jackhammer. Crown and Bloo's show were built around the music, and they added mosquitos...Cadets show was built around a jackhammer, with music added.

truman knows what a jackhammer sounds like...why drive 10 hours to listen to one? He can drive down to the local construction site to hear one. (i.e., he can turn on the local talk radio station to hear it)

sadly, that's exactly what the Cadets are doing for some folks.

If the other corps were really worried about it, they would show it when they vote for ludicrous crap like allowing electronics and narration.

so are the thousands of us that can't stand narration.

[Widge]

Just want to add an opinion based on what I saw at the Toledo show...

I am not against narration per se. When its used as an accent to what's being played/porformed on the field, it's fine. That's how it's being used in the Bluecoats show and it's fine.

I do not like how it's being used in this year's Cadets show. For one thing, it's badly written. It's like a Lifetime movie written by an 11-year old. It's like someone writing about life who has never lived one. Yes, it's a downer, but it's so inept, it makes you laugh rather than sympathise with the story.

Secondly, its badly performed. There's nothing on a score sheet to score narrators, but I wish there were. They aren't good.

But, even if they were Meryl Streep and Patrick Stewart, no one could make this treacly, ridiculous script sound good.

The corps is otherwise extremely talented, as they usually are. I wish the music that is played between the soap opera narration would stand on its own more. It seems designed to show off the dexterity of the musicians rather than be music that has a point to it or a melody that end up remembering on your way to the parking lot.

I've like Cadets shows in the past. The one that used the Bjork music from "Dancer in the Dark" was excellent.

But, they've moved in the direction of making the music accent the narration rather than the narration accent the music.

If they are trying to turn the football field to a theatrical stage, it's just not going to happen. They have to remember that the artform that is drum and bugle corps is unique and wonderful in its own style and design. It doesn't have to try to be something else to be good. It was already good when it is true to itsel.

I'm going to be bringing some folks to the Clifton show who have either never seen drum corps or not seen it for years. They are sophisticated folks for whom Broadway and the Met are not strange to them. It will be interesting to see their newbie reaction to this.

Its really strange where a discussion goes when the thread starts to react to the posters rather than to the original post.

At least this reply is giving some thought to the original discussion. Mainly Why does the best corps at a particular show, put on a performance that leaves the audience sitting on their hands??

[kwanswan]

That's the point. Sorry, but using Hitler as an example is weak to begin with..This thread is about a drum corps show right?

And I for one don't let people make my decisions for me. If I want to see a movie, I will go see it to judge for myself. I don't want to live my life as a sheep. But that's just me.

Perhaps using Hitler was a weak analogy, but that wasn't the point.

You never take advice from other people that you act upon? You must make a lot of obvious mistakes that others have already made. I'd tell you not to run out into traffic but since you don't want to be a sheep... Besides that might be pre-judging the situation! Better to get hit by the car and see if you like it or not, for yourself.

[2000Cadet]

hmmm..that's a cool question.

i'm sure you'd have some type of pre-conceived notion, because i'm so adamant about how the Cadets have used narration lately. However, I don't really have much of a verifiable history here on dcp...at least on matters other than me being anti-narration/anti-electronics. You could probably pre-judge me fairly accurately on those counts, however. It would probably be unfair to pre-judge any other aspects about me, however. If I was talking about the history of the Cadets, my tune would be different. They were my favorite corps for 2 decades. Overall, my judgment of the Cadets is at least Grade A-, if not a full A. The innovation they have brought to this genre...the excitement...the sounds..the precision...the "raising of the bar". None of that can be denied. However, my judgments brought about on this topic is about the Cadets recent history...last 3 years, and heavily based on last year.

Actually the only pre-conceived notion I have toward you is that you can't stand narration, and I have no HUGE problem with that so it's not really a big deal. But as far as everything else goes, we've only talked about one thing, narration. So I really would not be able to form an accurate judgement on you because we haven't talked about anything else.

Pre-judging this years Cadets show is a much easier thing to do than pre-judging a person, when you only know one aspect of their mentality. The cadets have a recent history replete with horrible narration (in my and many other's opinions), and by watching clips of this years show, reading reviews of intelligent people, and the fore-mentioned history, making an accurate deduction isn't that hard to do...

Yes, the past few years of what Cadets have brought to the field is not everyone's cup of tea. So I guess it would be easy to pre-judge this year's show based on what was done in recent years. I guess I still don't think it is fair, but people will do what they do and I have no choice but to accept it.

I understand why most people get angry on this site. Everyone on this site is extremely PASSIONATE about drum corps. People want their passion to be what they want it to be. MikeD's beliefs are different than mine, and we fuss at each other about it in the appropriate forums. His methods of expressing his opinions are different than my way of expressing personal opinions. Do I like his opinions? nope...do I respect his right to state those opinions? yup. That's how we all learn...the rational discourse of differing opinions. Will I ever change his mind? nope...will he ever change my mind? nope The only entity that can change my mind on Cadets narration is the Cadets. When then don't make narration the focus of the show, don't bore me with life issues, and don't cover up that delicious hornline, then I might just change my mind. (ok...don't hold your breath on that one, but it might be possible)

That passion about drum corps is what brings most people to this forum and without it, we wouldn't have anything to talk about lol. I have had quite a few spats with some people on here in my 1.5 years of being here, so I understand that I am not going to change most people's minds, though I have to admit I can come across as seeming to try to do so.

20-25 years later, I'm still very disappointed that I was either not allowed to participate in a corps, or was unable to participate in a corp. Passion always brings out the very best, and the very worst in people. Money is like that for some people. Greed and blackmail vs. charitable works. Now, I may be the world's worst person in trying to use comparisons to make a point. I tend to go overboard to make a point. (ok...I tend to go a lot overboard)

And I must admit that sometimes (and there were some cases with you) my passion for the activity has brought out the worst in me as well. I will have to work on that aspect.

Cool guy? ehh..maybe...if the planets ever align, and dinner or beverages make themselves available to us...I'm a steak guy...and I drink mass quantities of Jaeger

Well, at least we have one other thing in common. I am a steak guy as well, but I don't drink. I'll probably just have a glass of water.

[skewerz]

Its really strange where a discussion goes when the thread starts to react to the posters rather than to the original post.

At least this reply is giving some thought to the original discussion. Mainly Why does the best corps at a particular show, put on a performance that leaves the audience sitting on their hands??

because judge opinion unfortunately does not equal crowd opinion.

I know there is no way possible to add a crowd response element to scores. Honks would skew the results too much. I just wish the judges would judge a tad more on entertainment value, instead of pure technique/difficulty.

[MikeD]

actually their director when changing rules the other year called them a marching band.

oops. gotta hate when people remember that

Ooops....hate it when people mis-state what he said.

[skewerz]

Well, at least we have one other thing in common. I am a steak guy as well, but I don't drink. I'll probably just have a glass of water.

SWEET!!! Designated driver!!! Jaeger and karaoke makes me happy...well, and of course, drum corps, but I don't imbibe to watch drum corps...drum corps is too important to watch in an alcoholic haze..hehe

[2000Cadet]

SWEET!!! Designated driver!!! Jaeger and karaoke makes me happy...well, and of course, drum corps, but I don't imbibe to watch drum corps...drum corps is too important to watch in an alcoholic haze..hehe

Well, with my aggressive driving, you'd probably throw up.

[Jeff Ream]

Ooops....hate it when people mis-state what he said.

where's the mis-statement Mike? he said drum corps is marching band. so, he was calling his corps, and every other corps out there, a marching band.

I read thru his presentation many times, and it's right there in black and white. He says, in his opinion and apparently in the minds of many others, drum corps and marching = same.

you can try your pro George political double speak making excuses for what was said all you want ( and really you should run for office...i mean this as a compliment...you could double speak any of the best) and he said they are a band.

[kwanswan]

Well, with my aggressive driving, you'd probably throw up.

2000Cadet, I just wanted to pause in the chaos of this thread and state that I have a lot of respect for how you handle yourself in the midst of this discussion. You have an opinion which you state clearly, admit when you may have misunderstood and recognize that passion makes us all foggy now and again.

Bravo!