corps_forever07 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) I'm sure Hoppy knows exactly what he's doing here... he's getting people to talk about his shows, whether they like them or not, which he likely feels is better than no talk at all. "Any publicity is good publicity." You've made some very, very valid points. Two of the best posts in this whole thread. Edited July 1, 2008 by corps_forever07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84skyrydr Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 Again -- not disagreeing with your main point here -- and it's true that the Cadets are getting the brunt of the criticism this year and last because they were the main example of narration in volume and scope. But to say that all other corps have gotten a pass is simply not true. Crown was brutalized on these boards during the Bohemia year because of the singing, which was a new use of mics. Boston also was hammered because it was the biggest example of "narration" at that time. Now it's the Cadets turn with three straight years of "new" uses (first the solo singer as an instrumental voice, then the extensive narration the last two years.)It's true that the Cadets get it more in part because of folks' feelings towards Mr. Hopkins. That's definitely part of it. Also, though, the Cadets have gotten it more the last couple of years becuase while Crown, BD and Boston (and others) have had years of serious criticism, their use of the technology has varied year to year so things settle down. Cadets have increased use of mics for four straight years, so the complaining has compounded geometrically towards them. But to say the no one has gotten their fair share is simply not true. Not saying any of this is right or wrong, just pointing out that there are reasons other than (in addition to) hypocricy that the Cadets are the target de jour. Best reply yet. Not that the others were bad, but this one makes a good point. I wasn't on here for Crowns Bohemia year. They went back to plain drum corps this year, I HATED last year, while Boston has stayed away from narrating as well. I don't hate narration as is, I don't like it either. I know it isn't going to go away. If more people would express their views about ALL corps narration, then maybe those corps, minus Cadets, would go away from it. If you look back, Bluecoats had some narration last year. This year it is more ( when their mics work ). Are they the next Cadets? My biggest gripe is that everyone acts like Cadets were going to do something different this year and also act shocked when they find out they didn't. Cadets have and probably will do this again, but doesn't three to four years of whining, complaining and booing get just a little overdone? Thread after thread, poll after poll all trying to discredit what is arguably one of the best corps running. It is as bad as having to sit through narration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarnia sam Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Why must there be only ONE way to do anything? If a show is designed to use narration, then why is it a "problem" that the narration is needed for that show? Other shows are designed differently. Because its a drum and bugle/trumpet/whatever corps show, not Disney on parade. If you can't figure out a way to communicate music with the brass and percussion and have to explain it to the audience, then you ae obviously not doing a good enough job writing a show. Narration is a crutch plain and simple. Regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Best reply yet. Not that the others were bad, but this one makes a good point. I wasn't on here for Crowns Bohemia year. They went back to plain drum corps this year, I HATED last year, while Boston has stayed away from narrating as well. I don't hate narration as is, I don't like it either. I know it isn't going to go away. If more people would express their views about ALL corps narration, then maybe those corps, minus Cadets, would go away from it. If you look back, Bluecoats had some narration last year. This year it is more ( when their mics work ). Are they the next Cadets? My biggest gripe is that everyone acts like Cadets were going to do something different this year and also act shocked when they find out they didn't. Cadets have and probably will do this again, but doesn't three to four years of whining, complaining and booing get just a little overdone? Thread after thread, poll after poll all trying to discredit what is arguably one of the best corps running. It is as bad as having to sit through narration. Well, I do agree that the debate gets a little tiresome because both sides have dug in to their respective positions and so every thread quickly gets reduced to the same folks talking past each other. If that kind of discussion would stay in the threads designed to discuss it, then it wouldn't be so bad, but it seems like any thread that goes past 5 or 10 pages gets sucked in too -- that's where it really gets tiresome. But the debate itself is valid. Some folks strongly are against these rules changes and they have every right to express their opinion (hopefully in a constructive, respectful way). Likewise the other side. And so they are going to use whatever shows are the main culprits to have that debate. I'm glad that you acknowledged that you weren't here for the Crown Bohemia show and the Boston color show. Some folks who were here still make the same argument you're making, so they're either conveniently or purposefully forgetting the past to further their argument. Trust me when I say Crown was BRUTALIZED that year, and with all the same venom and bitterness and volume that the Cadets are today. Boston a little less so -- but it was still pretty bad. Both those corps went away from the narration thing the next year so the anti- crowd moved on the next, greatest example to make their case. Cadets have become the poster child because of their continued and increased use -- (and throw in the Hopkins factor, and you've got a perfect storm). I guarantee that if the Cadets put on a non-narration show next year, and Bluecoats continued to increase their use, the complaints would shift to them. Sure, Mr. Hopkins would still get grief because of his role in this, but I don't see any hypocrisy, just vehemence of postion (and a certain lack of respect and debate protocol on both sides !!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Best reply yet. Not that the others were bad, but this one makes a good point. I wasn't on here for Crowns Bohemia year. They went back to plain drum corps this year, I HATED last year, while Boston has stayed away from narrating as well. I don't hate narration as is, I don't like it either. I know it isn't going to go away. If more people would express their views about ALL corps narration, then maybe those corps, minus Cadets, would go away from it. If you look back, Bluecoats had some narration last year. This year it is more ( when their mics work ). Are they the next Cadets? My biggest gripe is that everyone acts like Cadets were going to do something different this year and also act shocked when they find out they didn't. Cadets have and probably will do this again, but doesn't three to four years of whining, complaining and booing get just a little overdone? Thread after thread, poll after poll all trying to discredit what is arguably one of the best corps running. It is as bad as having to sit through narration. You have to understand that anyone who spearhead's an effort to radically change an activity, is going to receive the brunt of the criticism. Like it or not....the complaining, whining, booing and countless other reactions are all the result of these HUGE changes to an activity that so many fans deeply love. For the record......I am definitely not a hypocrite........I hate all narration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Trust me when I say Crown was BRUTALIZED that year, and with all the same venom and bitterness and volume that the Cadets are today. Absolutely......as were the Blue Devils with there Dance Derby show..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Why must there be only ONE way to do anything? If a show is designed to use narration, then why is it a "problem" that the narration is needed for that show? Other shows are designed differently. Using narration in a show is perfectly fine and designers are perfectly at liberty to do it. I'm sure a BOA unit will be glad to have them on staff and there they can use all the narration they want. On the other hand, DCI was about drum corps. If they want to design for drum corps they need to learn to convey these grandiose themes without actually having to tell us about them on the field, and stop changing rules to cover their inability to portray a story with just drums, bugles and guard. Better yet - ditch the "necessity" of having a theme, shut up, and play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Better yet - ditch the "necessity" of having a theme, shut up, and play. Shut Up and Play - now that would be quite a theme. I will donate to whatever corps plays that show first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassy mom Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Because its a drum and bugle/trumpet/whatever corps show, not Disney on parade.If you can't figure out a way to communicate music with the brass and percussion and have to explain it to the audience, then you ae obviously not doing a good enough job writing a show. Narration is a crutch plain and simple. Regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Because its a drum and bugle/trumpet/whatever corps show, not Disney on parade.If you can't figure out a way to communicate music with the brass and percussion and have to explain it to the audience, then you ae obviously not doing a good enough job writing a show. Narration is a crutch plain and simple. Regards, John D&B corps shows can...and sometimes do...include narration. It's just as legal and appropriate as any other element being used. And no, a show designed to use narration is not using it as a crutch...it's using as as any other musical element to present their show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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