whitedawn Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 so I'm guessing as long as its clean and not durring the show, I'll be fine - but I'll check w/ my lawyer friends too and see what they say, after they stop laughing at me of course ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAMystreaux Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 hmmm..because everything you post is pro-narration...pro-Cadets using narration..pro-Hoppy for using narration...pro-DCI for allowing narration...pro-anything that makes it more like BOA... . . .and just about everything you post is the opposite. Sorry, but it had to be pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 . . .and just about everything you post is the opposite. Sorry, but it had to be pointed out. that is correct...I'm at least man enough to admit it... I want BOA to remain BOA... I want drum corps to remain it's own distinct personality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Did anyone question the quality of design in that show?.. the quality of the performance of these 'new' things that pushed the envelope? Yes. I sat next to people all over the country who did just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
music4278 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) Im kinda with this guy, Mozart was well accepted and these composers occupy a different place in history than drum & bugle corps or marching bands.Trying to call this stuff "art" too often is an attempt to brainwash people with legitimate criticism. Let's not be completely full of ourselves. If you want to really make the comparison between drum corps and classical orchestra then let's do it right. How many "good shows" are there with amplified narraration on the orchestra stage? A Lincoln Portrait perhaps (Im not even crazy about that, "this is what he said, this is what Abe Lincoln said"...) even that gets a little tiresome. I like the sound of instruments, it is what I go to hear. Amplified voice, it is like when the flash goes off on a camera, you cant see for a few seconds, amplified voice interrupts the continuity of sound from non amplified instruments. How would classical audiences react if for instance the Philly Orchestra started adding amplified voice doing narration to every concert? If what was sacred to orchestra fans, like Beethoven's 5th suddenly began to be explained or if some spoken "story" were added to it. Does it need that? Is it art then? I find it humorous to even try to compare apples with oranges - symphonic orchestras to drum corp. Of course that is not my intent. Art refers to a diverse range of human activities, creations, and expressions that are appealing or attractive to the senses or have some significance to the mind of an individual. The word "art" may be used to cover all or any of the arts, including music, literature and other forms. It is most often used to refer specifically to the visual arts, including media such as painting, sculpture, and printmaking. However it can also be applied to forms of art that stimulate the other senses, such as music, an auditory art. Aesthetics is the branch of philosophy which considers art. Traditionally the term art was used to refer to any skill or mastery. Generally art is a (product of) human activity, made with the intention of stimulating the human senses as well as the human mind; by transmitting emotions and/or ideas. Beyond this description, there is no general agreed-upon definition of art. Art is also able to illustrate abstract thought and its expressions can elicit previously hidden emotions in its audience. Obviously, the Cadets have elicited many previously hidden emotions in many people. No one can tell me that Crown's ballad last year was not art - because it was one of the most memorable moments of color, blend and control that I have ever heard. Edited July 10, 2008 by music4278 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_another_fanatic Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I hate to be THAT guy, but the thing that caused the rioting during the Rite of Spring was the ballet's dance choreography, NOT the music; the music could barely be heard amid the shouting. My two cents on the post: Cadets won't win. Cadets show is not art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
music4278 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 I hate to be THAT guy, but the thing that caused the rioting during the Rite of Spring was the ballet's dance choreography, NOT the music; the music could barely be heard amid the shouting. First 'Rite of Spring Performance' description: The complex music and violent dance steps depicting fertility rites first drew catcalls and whistles from the crowd. At the start with the opening bassoon solo, the audience began to boo loudly due to the slight discord in the background notes behind the bassoon's opening melody. There were loud arguments in the audience between supporters and opponents of the work. These were soon followed by shouts and fistfights in the aisles. The unrest in the audience eventually degenerated into a riot. The Paris police arrived by intermission, but they restored only limited order. Chaos reigned for the remainder of the performance, and Stravinsky himself was so upset on account of its reception that he fled the theater in mid-scene, reportedly crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 hmmm..because everything you post is pro-narration...pro-Cadets using narration..pro-Hoppy for using narration...pro-DCI for allowing narration...pro-anything that makes it more like BOA... DCI has to align itself with it's target audience...scholastic musicians, if it has any chance to survive long term. That is MHO. I am pro-eliminating every rule that limits instrumentation choices, absolutely. It does not give anyone here the right to make personal attacks against me, just because they disagree. it doesn't take a degree in psychoanalysis to see where you stand...you have that right...you just have a way of being condescending to those that think the way I do... Condescending? Care to provide an example? I state MHO on topics, that's all. I totally disagree with those who want drum corps to stagnate and move away from broadening the available options for designing shows. 90% of the people (on DCP) think the narration is horrible. Yes, I know that doesn't mean everyone in the world...yes, I know that you think that dcp isn't a valid "piece of pie" when it comes to what those that don't post on dcp think. I just happen to think you are wrong...you think i'm wrong...we'll live, I suppose, with each other's disagreement. Which only becomes an issue when that disagreement becomes an attack on a personal level...Borg comments etc... If the judges were actually judging content, the Cadets would be losing GE by the bucketful. That is just your opinion..that you are trying to state is a fact. Apparently they are making all sorts of changes based on their feedback...and as they get better at what they do..their scores rise. Narration is one small coponent of the show...the rest is also part of what gets evaluated. Last year, Pioneer was told if they didn't switch to Bb, they'd never get higher scores...G bugles ARE still legal, yet Pioneer were being scored lower because of a judges opinion. Judges are as opinionated as we on DCP are, and they aren't supposed to be. You really think they were scored low because of their horns? That the horns are the only reason they are not in the thick of things brass-wise? Judges are trained to evaluate the sound being produced...and make suggestions for improvement. Personally, I would never make a comment like that, and I doubt DCI supports such comments. What Pioneer did about them...and how DI responded...is between Pio and DCI and the judging leadership. They should be able to listen to the content, and hear that it's just not anywhere near as top quality as the rest of the corps is...and they narration should indeed lower their GE scores dramatically. Unfortunately, I would bet that those judging never even hear the actual words of the narration, because they are trying to judge everything else. Therefore, the content of the narration is getting a "pass"... The only place the content of the narration (the "what") would have an impact is Effect. Have you been to Cadet judging critiques to be qualified to make such assertions? Or are you projecting your dislike of The Cadets on how you think the judges should respond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 that is correct...I'm at least man enough to admit it... Oh..and that means that somehow I am not? And you called ME condescending! I want BOA to remain BOA...I want drum corps to remain it's own distinct personality... DCI will never be the same as BOA, even if the permitted instrumentation becomes the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_another_fanatic Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) First 'Rite of Spring Performance' description: The complex music and violent dance steps depicting fertility rites first drew catcalls and whistles from the crowd. At the start with the opening bassoon solo, the audience began to boo loudly due to the slight discord in the background notes behind the bassoon's opening melody. There were loud arguments in the audience between supporters and opponents of the work. These were soon followed by shouts and fistfights in the aisles. The unrest in the audience eventually degenerated into a riot. The Paris police arrived by intermission, but they restored only limited order. Chaos reigned for the remainder of the performance, and Stravinsky himself was so upset on account of its reception that he fled the theater in mid-scene, reportedly crying. your source was wikipedia. my source, the program notes of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra: "The spectacle of the premiere has always overshadowed the fact that at the dress rehearsal, before an invited audience which included Debussy and Ravel, and at the subsequent performances, The Rite of Spring didn't cause any commotion. And most reports of opening night fail to point out that, despite the revolutionary nature of Stravinsky's music, it was the dancing that provoked the audience... As Stravinsky was fond of remembering, after the first concert performance almost a year later, the crowd cheered and he was carried aloft through the theater and into the Place de la Trinité." more here: http://www.cso.org/main.taf?p=5,5,5,40 Edited July 10, 2008 by just_another_fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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