Corps that needed to be put out of misery

[mikecollins86]

You're right, Mike, that it was a legacy for that corps, but I have to think: What did all of you going on to bigger and better things do for the Kingsmen? Absolutely not picking a fight, but worth considering.

Garry in Vegas

Well, if you saw the 1983 Kingsmen (which I marched in) you could see we weren't a shadow of the 1982 corps. Bob James (upper lead in 1987 Vanguard, plus other years) was in 1983 with me as well, along with John Cubos (lead with BD in 1985) I think by the end of that year, the writing was on the wall and only the sadistic would have expected us to come back in 1984....

Mike

[KeithHall]

I was teaching the Renegades (NY) in '82 and saw Kingsmen, I believe at US Open. The last time I saw them was in 1972 at Marion. Seeing the Kingsmen in '82 was a bit sad for me as I remembered how great the corps was 10 years before. I will say that the "California" sound was there and I was happy to hear a decent horn line. So 82 wasn't the end of the world just needed more bodies to compete with the bigger corps.

Well, if you saw the 1983 Kingsmen (which I marched in) you could see we weren't a shadow of the 1982 corps. Bob James (upper lead in 1987 Vanguard, plus other years) was in 1983 with me as well, along with John Cubos (lead with BD in 1985) I think by the end of that year, the writing was on the wall and only the sadistic would have expected us to come back in 1984....

Mike

[Puppet]

You said it all in these two sentences......They want to be in a top 10 drum corps but not in any division III corps. Its all or nothing. Remember in the 60's and 70's when we would stay loyal to our local corps? Some kids went to a top corps but very few. How many of the kids from Blue Devils were from California in 1976? Or Santa Clara Vanguard in 1974? Or Wisconsin with the Madison Scouts in 1975? I was from North Tonawanda, NY and I could have gone to Squires or Greece Cadets but instead stayed with my local corps.

How many kids stay in Garfield Cadets for 10 years? I bet the average member stays in for 3 to 4 years and alot are only in for 1 to 2 years. What do you think the average member of a perennial Open Class corps stays in? Lets say Jersey Surf.

We can point the finger at DCI, we can point the finger at Corps directors, we can point the finger at High School marching bands, we can point the finger at the economy, we can blame show designers, brass instrument manufacturers and we can blame parents! Instead of blaming...find a solution! Every year new and "better" ideas pop up in business and education. Basically they are the same thing with new "buzz" words and a new approach. In education we were forced with No Child Left Behind. Well, children are being left behind and it's not educations fault. Well government gets in the way and tries to clean the education house while their house is in disarray. NCLB was just a new approach but wasn't used properly.

DCI was a new approach in 1972, the savior of drum corps. No more inspections, no more tics. Lets give credit and not take away. A novel idea wouldn't you say? We had the top echelon of corps and we also had a lot of competent A Class corps too. Later on DCI adds shows, takes over shows and forces everyone to play THEIR way. Corps directors bite. Cool idea, we can travel all summer long. "A" Class corps driving in old school buses to Denver. The buses break down, kids are stranded and calls home to NY are made, "I need a plane or bus ticket because all our buses are dead...help!" As the years go on more corps figure out that they can't stay active because of the cost, the high school marching bands take the cue from drum corps and become more competitive. Corps directors are stealing money from the bingo operation. Parents start to rebel against corps directors and try to "takeover" corps. They eventually fall by the way side.

Skip ahead to today. Name a corps and then survey that corps members with questions like...how many years have you been in this corps? Where is your hometown? How many years of drum corps did you march?

Go over to DCA and you see members going to the "winning team." How many members have jumped from their corps to Brigs, Bucs, Cabs or ES in the past several years to try for the RING?

Yes we can blame alot of people but what are we doing to help drum corps? Some of you sponsor members...to march in top 12 corps. Does anyone try to sponsor an Open Class corps? Send your money to those corps who really need it. Give those corps a chance to grow and get better and get educators on their staffs.

I started this thread only because I was looking at scores of the 1972 US Open and started thinking back to some of those corps who were really bad. Some of you made comments like, "the kids really tried hard." I agree with that! I didn't mean it to be hateful because I was in a "not-so-good corps for a while and I stuck it out and we got better...then folded. I saw the same thing with Imperial Regiment, Greece Cadets, Avant Garde, etc. Now all of us that were in NY corps reminisce because we don't have a junior corps to support.

May I just say that in 1972 there were over 125 Class "A" marching Junior Drum Corps out there. Anaheim amongst the best that year if memory serves. Blue Rock, The Kilties, 27, Bridgemen, Garfield and even us lowly St. Rita's could hold our own against the best of the best. By 1982 there were only 12 in the top 12. I'm not pointing fingers and I don't do math but isn't that a tremendous drop off in such a short time? Yes, much of that is our fault, the fault of the times, etc., Communities changed and I know I stayed with the same organization until I aged out. 8 seasons - 8 glorious seasons without one "big" win. Didn't care 'cause we came close a many a time. We didn't go to the Open that year but even the DeLaSalle Oaklands, Blessed Sacrament, Racine Scouts, and yes the Purple Lancers were pretty darn good - Purple blew my socks off a couple of years later!

Yeah, I'm sorry and I'm no longer in Drum Corps - but if I lived in new York City I would be wearing Brassmen Alumni red for sure.

But there ya go.

Puppet

[Fastone]

May I just say that in 1972 there were over 125 Class "A" marching Junior Drum Corps out there. Anaheim amongst the best that year if memory serves. Blue Rock, The Kilties, 27, Bridgemen, Garfield and even us lowly St. Rita's could hold our own against the best of the best. By 1982 there were only 12 in the top 12. I'm not pointing fingers and I don't do math but isn't that a tremendous drop off in such a short time? Yes, much of that is our fault, the fault of the times, etc., Communities changed and I know I stayed with the same organization until I aged out. 8 seasons - 8 glorious seasons without one "big" win. Didn't care 'cause we came close a many a time. We didn't go to the Open that year but even the DeLaSalle Oaklands, Blessed Sacrament, Racine Scouts, and yes the Purple Lancers were pretty darn good - Purple blew my socks off a couple of years later!

Yeah, I'm sorry and I'm no longer in Drum Corps - but if I lived in new York City I would be wearing Brassmen Alumni red for sure.

But there ya go.

Puppet

I think your memory is a little selective. Even in the 60's and 70's there were plenty of corps in that 125 that never were going to beat top level corps, which is why some of those corps never made any finals. You came from a smaller level junior corps to St Joe's just like I did, I came because I wanted to be exposed to a higher level of competition and instruction from big name instructors, that's the same reason people move around today. There were 43 corps in Open class Prelims and another 43 in class A at DCI in 1982 btw,

Edited December 15, 2008 by Fastone

[MikeD]

May I just say that in 1972 there were over 125 Class "A" marching Junior Drum Corps out there. Anaheim amongst the best that year if memory serves. Blue Rock, The Kilties, 27, Bridgemen, Garfield and even us lowly St. Rita's could hold our own against the best of the best. By 1982 there were only 12 in the top 12.

Actually, in 1972 there were 12 in the top 12 too.

[lindap]

Irony.

btw the corps i was in got better and better and better every year :-)

edit: btw Keith Hall, if my uniform is still around, could you send it back please, it might fit:)

Edited December 16, 2008 by lindap

[KeithHall]

Actually it may fit you. I have it hanging in my closet and once in a while I look at it and try to figure out when was I that small.

If you're ever in Florida let me know and I'll let you try it on, but I still keep it.

Irony.

btw the corps i was in got better and better and better every year :-)

edit: btw Keith Hall, if my uniform is still around, could you send it back please, it might fit:)

[KeithHall]

I loved Seneca Princemen, especially their last year when they came to an indoor show we (Royal Coachmen) had in North Tonawanda. Didn't you play "1812 Overture?"

Irony.

btw the corps i was in got better and better and better every year :-)

edit: btw Keith Hall, if my uniform is still around, could you send it back please, it might fit:)

[lindap]

I loved Seneca Princemen, especially their last year when they came to an indoor show we (Royal Coachmen) had in North Tonawanda. Didn't you play "1812 Overture?"

Thanks, 1812 rings a bell. I found our 1973 newsletter 2 days ago that includes a brief history starting from 1961, the corps name changes over the years, full repetoire from 1968 - 1972, no photos, articles written by parents and corps members. Keep the uniform, I won't need it but real cool that you have it. If I remember they were made by a group of volunteers.

[KeithHall]

Scarborough Firefighters to Seneca Princemen. I think Firefighters participated in Penn-York in 1970 as we were finalist in our first year...can't remember what place we took but we came out of nowhere and surprised everyone.

Thanks, 1812 rings a bell. I found our 1973 newsletter 2 days ago that includes a brief history starting from 1961, the corps name changes over the years, full repetoire from 1968 - 1972, no photos, articles written by parents and corps members. Keep the uniform, I won't need it but real cool that you have it. If I remember they were made by a group of volunteers.