Drum Corps As It Was

[kansasDC]

I don't think there's anything wrong with prefering the drum corps styles of the past over today's version. That's a valid point of view. Some people prefer vintage cars while others prefer modern. Does that make one person's taste more valid than the other?

Absolutely not. I believe every one has a right to their opinion.

BUT, I get really PO'd when I hear the "oldtimers" criticizing the members of today's corps and saying completely unfounded things like "they don't work as hard as we did", or "they have a silver spoon in their mouth". Unless you have been actively involved in the activity for the past 30-40 years, and/or have family members or close friends you live with day-to-day that are involved as members, you really cannot accurately make those judgements by going to a show or two each year and typing on DCP for the other 363 days a year. I marched 16 years in junior corps at all levels (class D to DCI member corps), and can accurately say that my son works alot harder than any of the members from my marching days did, and he is NOT having it handed to him. He has to raise his own tour money (several thosand $$), travel hundreds of miles every month to extended weekend camps, and practice, compete, and travel everyday from May 20th through August 8th without any time off. Plus maintain his 4.0 in school, play several sports, etc., etc. That is definitely a tougher schedule than I ever dreamed of at 16 years old.

(In my best NY voice: Yeah, I'm proud of my kid. Wanna make something of it??? ).

[Rocketman]

I aged out in '79 but have followed the activity ever since. I don't need amplification, pit or voice, to enjoy a show. My problem with some of the so called "state of the art" shows is, they do nothing for me. (Star 93, Cadets 05, BD 08 to name three). While I can appreciate the talent required, these shows, as a "concept" did nothing for me. But that's the activity now and then.

You can't blanketly say, "all the shows of the 70's were AWESOME!" because it's all a matter of taste.

[MikeD]

I don't think there's anything wrong with prefering the drum corps styles of the past over today's version. That's a valid point of view. Some people prefer vintage cars while others prefer modern. Does that make one person's taste more valid than the other?

Oh, we are all free to like what we like...I have said that many times.

[lindap]

Oh, we are all free to like what we like...I have said that many times.

I was into drum corp 69-80, winter guard 69-88. Do I have an opinion? Perhaps but I like posting photos. Might speak my mind sometime; if in the mood.

[Puppet]

Absolutely not. I believe every one has a right to their opinion.

BUT, I get really PO'd when I hear the "oldtimers" criticizing the members of today's corps and saying completely unfounded things like "they don't work as hard as we did", or "They have a silver spoon in their mouths." Unless you have been actively involved in the activity for the past 30-40 years, and/or have family members or close friends you live with day-to-day that are involved as members, you really cannot accurately make those judgements by going to a show or two each year and typing on DCP for the other 363 days a year. I marched 16 years in junior corps at all levels (class D to DCI member corps), and can accurately say that my son works alot harder than any of the members from my marching days did, and he is NOT having it handed to him. He has to raise his own tour money (several thosand $$), travel hundreds of miles every month to extended weekend camps, and practice, compete, and travel everyday from May 20th through August 8th without any time off. Plus maintain his 4.0 in school, play several sports, etc., etc. That is definitely a tougher schedule than I ever dreamed of at 16 years old.

(In my best NY voice: Yeah, I'm proud of my kid. Wanna make something of it??? ).

My bit of a rant was not directly focused on your son. It was simply an explanation of some of the things we had to do.

We all had part time jobs, we all went to school, ran track played B-Ball. I was in the All City Chorus & Orchestra just as a for instance. I never said the quote highlighted above - I said quite the opposite. Please, as we say on the Upper West Side, take a breath.

Puppet

Edited February 28, 2009 by Puppet

[Hup234]

"Tm Kviz, a DCP poster and parent of one of the Blue Stars members, got to present his decidedly (IMO) backwards-looking POV to DCI, the instructor's caucus I think, thanks to his corps director. Personally, I disagreed with just about every word of what he was proposing, but he DID get to present his views."

I never implied that the activity leadership stifles opposing views from being articulated, but did I read what you said above correctly? That Mr. Kviz needed some sort of intervention by his corps director, a bit of string-pulling to be allowed to speak before that most august panel?

"The hundreds...thousands...of corps, large and small, local and national in scope, that existed...and died...over time, long before and into the DCI era are long gone...and not due to DCI. Few of those corps were involved with DCI to any great degree...most of them not at all."

True enough, but over the years the policies and trends set by DCI's top brass (little pun there) that demanded such unrealistically-high performance levels have effectively excluded thousands of inexperienced youth that could have participated all along. Many, many corps depended on recruiting such members, including the Hilltoppers. And those corps that did manage to survive were faced with ever-higher costs of just staying even in order to remain competitive, a result of the leadership's quest to make D&BC "legitimate" and "respectable". Never forget that DCI's roots go back to the most openly-elitist, exclusionary D&BC group ever, the so-called Midwest Combine.

Don't forget, national level corps pre-DCI were quite a bit smaller than the World Class corps of today...40 horns, 16 drums and 20 guard was a good sized corps in 1970. Corps today are double that in size, so 20 World Class corps has the membership of almost 40 decent sized class 'A' corps of my era. Class 'B' (the small local corps) often marched hornlines in the +/-20 range, with 10-12 drums and 8-12 guard.

But that's shaky reasoning because if we use that math, pre-DCI corps could make twice as much music and double the length of the competitions with the same numbers of members. (I'll agree it's fun to pose hypothetical points.)

All of this began by talking about The Poem, flawed meter and everything. The ode does need a bit of polishing and a re-do to be really effective, and the "they get worse" part isn't really accurate, which diminishes its validity a bit. But the poem's intent is sincere and reflects the mood of many alumni.

(Question to anyone: has DCI ever made any official moves to welcome back alumni?)

[gigiandjim]

as I stated befor what these kids play today I or most of us "old timers" could never play.

and things do evolve over time.

BUT what we see is more of a movement to turn Drum Corps into BANDS.

and the thought that it will bring in more kids doesnt make sense.

If you want other than drums and bugles, join a band.

and is not a slap against you BUT your turning something into a total diffrent animal.

its called Drum and Bugle corps

not Drum and bugle and strings and woodwinds and flute corps.

[Piper]

Around 76' was when PBS started to broadcast the DCI championships. I guess it was around October and I asked one of our corps moms what she thought of it. The first words out of her mouth were "I DON'T LIKE THE OUTFITS ON THOSE BRIDGEMEN!" Looking back on it, it was kind of funny because it was a generational thing. The older people thought the long yellow coats and floppy hats were sacrilige but the younger people thought it was cool. Personally I like the old style better, but that's just me. Hey - whatever blows you're hair back.

[MikeD]

I never implied that the activity leadership stifles opposing views from being articulated, but did I read what you said above correctly? That Mr. Kviz needed some sort of intervention by his corps director, a bit of string-pulling to be allowed to speak before that most august panel?

I think that any proposal has to come through a corps admin in some form or other, but I don't know the exact rule.

True enough, but over the years the policies and trends set by DCI's top brass (little pun there) that demanded such unrealistically-high performance levels have effectively excluded thousands of inexperienced youth that could have participated all along. Many, many corps depended on recruiting such members, including the Hilltoppers. And those corps that did manage to survive were faced with ever-higher costs of just staying even in order to remain competitive, a result of the leadership's quest to make D&BC "legitimate" and "respectable". Never forget that DCI's roots go back to the most openly-elitist, exclusionary D&BC group ever, the so-called Midwest Combine.

If you have more people trying out than spots...there has to be some sort of tryout/audition. As there are fewer and fewer corps...the tryout becomes that much more rigorous. Scholastic music programs have replaced the training level corps, as most members today come from a band background.

But that's shaky reasoning because if we use that math, pre-DCI corps could make twice as much music and double the length of the competitions with the same numbers of members. (I'll agree it's fun to pose hypothetical points.)

All of this began by talking about The Poem, flawed meter and everything. The ode does need a bit of polishing and a re-do to be really effective, and the "they get worse" part isn't really accurate, which diminishes its validity a bit. But the poem's intent is sincere and reflects the mood of many alumni.

I'm sure it does reflect the POV of some alums...which I find very sad.

(Question to anyone: has DCI ever made any official moves to welcome back alumni?)

In what sense? They have been featuring alumni performances at champs...ad other shows such as DCI East...and recently released the legacy DVD collection.

[MikeD]

as I stated befor what these kids play today I or most of us "old timers" could never play.

and things do evolve over time.

BUT what we see is more of a movement to turn Drum Corps into BANDS.

and the thought that it will bring in more kids doesnt make sense.

If you want other than drums and bugles, join a band.

and is not a slap against you BUT your turning something into a total diffrent animal.

its called Drum and Bugle corps

not Drum and bugle and strings and woodwinds and flute corps.

Drum corps have been moving in instrumentation towards the band world since before I started marching. Drum corps are bands...and have always been bands. It's not turning into something different, it's just continuing down the road started over half a century ago.