RaiderLex Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Is a bach 3F considered a cheater....i played on it for a while, and it improved my range, but it gave me horrible tone quality down low, so i went back to a 3C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedodger Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Is a bach 3F considered a cheater....i played on it for a while, and it improved my range, but it gave me horrible tone quality down low, so i went back to a 3C. I think it's cheater if you're putting it into a Bb trumpet. It has the standard 3 Bach witdth, hence 3. Then the F cup is very shallow. Actually the F cup is comparable to the Jet-Tone Studio Model A--If I remember correctly. I have one and it's too wide for my tastes, as a shallow mouthpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadtrumpet44 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 hey guys... I dunno.. I think its all in the player.. and not the mouthpiece.. i play on a small mouthpiece ( Warburton 7MC with an 8 series 80 backbore) and I have a very good tone. My lower range is just as consistant as my upper range, and pedal tones come out great. This may seem like a joke because it is, and I admit, a SMALL mouthpiece.. but, if it works for you... shouldn't you play it? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizazzman Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 umm,, sorry, but assymetrics are like the pinnacle of cheater moutpeices, its not you that worked for the notes, its the mouthpiece almost like pinching your bottom lip to make it vibrat faster, without actually pinching or appling pressure. At least IMO. So um, since when is playing on the best design "cheating"??? We look for the best design in horns, horns that play better than others, is that cheating? The asymmetrics aren't simply a shallow "screamer" cup that sounds horrible in all but upper registers, they're a reshaped cup with the same volume as a 3C (or larger even) that allows you to play with better range and better tone. So how is using the best design cheating? Should we shun new designs in horns too and brush them off as "cheaters" just because they make it possible with new features to play better? No. So why then should we shun revolutionary designs in mouthpieces and brush them off as "cheating"? I don't get it, if it helps you to play better without any drawbacks, go for it! Save the trumpet ego for someone else, be practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prtxsop Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 I've had my experieces with "cheaters" and the biggest of mouthpieces. I was introduced to a Marcinkewitz mouthpiece (Bobby Shew Model) about five years ago. At first, I thought it was a gift from beyond. I couldn't get enough of it. I was scolded by my peers for using a "cheater." I was lead in the jazz ensemble and screaming every time I had the chance. My range went higher, my tone stayed the same. Then I got into college, and had no use for it. So I stuck to my Bach 1 and a Bach 3C. Then I spent a summer with Phantom Regiment for the summer of 2002. Pete Bond, our caption head, wanted to open up the bores and the throats to our m'pce. So I gave him my 3C. WOW!!! My tone was as open as the sky. I retained the range I had, or I never tried to increase or test to see if it went beyond what I could play. When I was back at home on my B-flat, I did my normal work-out. Then at marching band practice, while working on "Big Noise from Winnetka," I tried out the range. I went from a Double A to the Double C# on my open 3C. A Major 3rd higher. No "cheater." Just long tones, lip slurs, etc. And I'm still working on going higher. So, I would have to say that using a "cheater" mouthpiece is all up to the player. But to quote previous posts, it's a matter of personal preference. AND, long tones and lip slurs are the best thing to play into the stratosphere. My personal preference is my 3C. Your preference may be a Schilke 6A4a, Bach 1, Wick 2W, etc. It's all up to you. Besides, I hate the name "cheater mouthpiece," I perfer "lead mouthpiece." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNix Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 I just play everything on my good ol' Bach 3C. Jazz, marching, symphonic, whatever. It gets the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaiderLex Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I just play everything on my good ol' Bach 3C. Jazz, marching, symphonic, whatever. It gets the job done. Exactly.....me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloist8603 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I believe whatever mouthpiece you can play in all ranges (tone quality and flexability) than that is the mouthpiece for you. Most times a player will change to a new (or as some people say) a cheater and they don't play it long enough to adapt to the new piece. If it works it works. I personally have been playing a 6A4A since 1980 and have never heard any complaints about what I sounded like in any range. Playing history is........ soloist...Steel City Ambassadors 1980-1983, 1985-1989, 1991-1992, Westshoreman lead 1995, soloist Caballeros 2000-2001, 2003 Curt Hawkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweendoc Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Hey Curt, glad to see you finally made it to cyberspace!!! How's things going at the Cabs? Will get to see you at Hershey. If you look at the older posts in brass forum, I started a thread about mouthpiece choice for lead trumpeters and soprano buglers. I got some very interesting responses. Good to hear from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bssop97 Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 A little late on this topic but I'll add my two cents. Through out high school I had serious problems with finding a mouthpiece, and ended up on a Bach 1c. I started college on that piece and then changed to my current mouthpiece a Warburton 4md with a 9* backbore (close to a 3C with a bigger backbore {schilke d}), I also got my throat larged to a 25 (I'm a bright player, even on the 1c) and a REAL NARROW rim with serious bite (thats just my personal taste). I love that mouthpiece! It darkend my sound (larger throat) and I had an increase in range (It was due to that it played better on center and I was pinching up high). I used that piece in two years of corps and I was pleased with it.... I will say of the two brass guys that I had the first didn't like my sound (love the man but he's a baritone player) and the second is Chris Green (aka psiguy) and he never said anything bad about it (he was quite the oposite of my first horn guy, he plays trumpet). Both seasons, esspically 99, I could play over the line if I wanted to..... the bigger backbore and large throat allowed me to put through some serrious air. One time in 99 I did a super c stack on our first loud chord in the show and remember that I picked a tree from across the river (Mississippi) and nailed it, afterwards I chewed out by an 11 year vet "God Shannon, that was nasty" and Chris came to my rescue "Hey Shannon was the only one that hit that solid and center and he was two octaves above you"..... Anyway my point........ Its not a mouthpiece that makes the difference, its the RIGHT mouthpiece. Look into many different brands and find one that is right for you in feel and sound. Thats the one that you will scream on. For me it was going down in diameter and going to a larger throat to darken the "core" of the sound and a bigger backkbore to broden the sound. So if a 13a4a does it for you than go for it, if its a schilke 22 (I played on one my junior year of HS and dang thats a tub) than so be it. Screaming is only 10% piece though, 15% chops, 25% air and 50%mental. I've been back on the trumpet for two weeks (I stoped after I left corps in 99) and my range is back to a double Bb (When I started back I was at high D). Its not my chops, or piece, it's that I'm getting confident again in my playing. Shannon Jeffreys Blue Stars Lead Soprano 97- and 1/4 of 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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