Fan of the Arts Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Or so you've been led to believe... History speaks for itself :) Every year I hope [Holy Name] Cadets take the title; but they don't....do they? Irving Fan of the Arts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn State Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) I Absolutley agree with you Harvey ! How long has it been since DCI has had field trialsfor up and coming judges ?To long if you ask me ! I would be very interested to see what would happen if... DCI had two sets of judges at a few early season shows. Group one would be composed of seasoned judges. Group two would be composed of professional instructors who are also seasoned judges, but never had judge for DCI (and preferably never been to a DCI show). It would be interesting to see how the scores from each group would stack up. Would we see 'score inflation' for the 'big three' from the DCI judges? Would the non-DCI judges scores be significantly lower than the DCI crew? Could scores vary so much that the 'champion' for the show would differ between the two judging groups? Other possib;e scenerios I did not list/think of??? I feel a setup like this could prove or disprove our feelings on judging. Please feel free to add comments and suggestions.... Edited May 14, 2009 by Penn State Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I guess the question then becomes; do the judges do an acceptable job from year to year of weeding though the corps to find the best one and ultimately do they make the right call on finals night? IMO there is almost no difference in performance level between the top 3 corps. Maybe even the top 5 corps. They're all pretty much performing at the same high level, and you could probably surmise that someone marching in the 5th place corps wouldn't have any problem hacking it in the 1st place corps. So, with that said, what are the judges actually judging when comparing the top 5 corps? At that level, it's show design and politcs that wins DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I disagree. Usually, a weak section or two keeps a 3rd place corps from 1st. Like you said, GE points are usually pretty close among the top 5, but percussion and brass scores can vary by a point or more amont the top 5, and much more after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavarium Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Stop being so defensive. You know the deal when it comes to threads like these. None of it means anything because (no matter how many "people you know" or how many "files" you have on your computer), nobody has actually SEEN the entire field productions of all the corps yet. Heard some music? Yes...even though changes do get made. Gotten info on some show design things? Yes...even though stuff like that has been known to change from April to June. Not mention from June to August! Seen the drill yet? How its staged? The quality of the transitions? Most likely, NO. Seen the color guard uniforms and all the different silks and the guard work yet? Probably not. At best, anyone's information on what the corps are going to do this summer is woefully incomplete. We can make guesses, and maybe even have a pretty good guess or three on where certain corps will end up, but in the end, that's all they are. Guesses. And corps like Crown and Bluecoats and any number of corps who haven't won yet will always have to face the doubters until they actually DO IT. Can Crown win this year? I guess anything is possible, but history points me to the direction of standing with the doubters. At least until I have the common sense to actually SEE all the corps perform this summer. Even then, what I believe in June has been known to change after what I see in August. you're making your own prediction based off of history. At least I've seen the corps. just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavarium Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) BUT, with no shows or even the visual aspect to compare around DCI, pre-season predictions often are completely off and based on personal bias. At least, that's the impression I have gotten from years of drum corps and decades of following sports. I totally agree. I'm no stranger to DCP, much like my screenname would lead you to believe... I've seen all of the prediction threads and posts based off of nothing, and I've seen the people who get lambasted simply for stating that they believe a corps has what it takes to win. I will never forget three years ago when a rather important member on this forum saw The Cadets right before the season started (in 2006) and said he believed the corps could win that year... obviously, they didn't, and that member received hell from everyone because of his "unfounded prediction". Big deal if I'm wrong. Not only did I not make a prediction, I was just saying that I believe it could happen. It's not the end of the world. Edited May 14, 2009 by Octavarium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rut-roh Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 you're making your own prediction based off of history. At least I've seen the corps.just saying... I've seen the corps, too. Just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavarium Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I've seen the corps, too. Just sayin... haha, point taken. I guess we'll see during the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 you're making your own prediction based off of history. At least I've seen the corps.just saying... And that's exactly the point! HISTORY has shown to be more accurate than any pre-season account! (Which is sad, actually) For Crown to win in 2009, they'll have to do a few things never before done: 1) Win w/o coming in 2nd or 3rd in a prior year 2) Win w/o winning a single caption during finals week in a prior year 3) Win w/o beating everyone else in a prior year (I don't think they've beaten Blue Devils or Cavies yet, but I might be wrong) Especially 2009...it just won't happen. All of the pressure will be on the judges to reward Cadets. Cadets have all of the hype. They're in their 75th year; they've changed their name; they're playing WSS; they've been hyping this since last summer, even before 2008 DCI Finals was over! They're going to be GREAT, and we all know it. The judges know it. (expectation...is huge in CI) Let's assume--just for fun--that Crown will MATCH that intensity and excellence. Do you REALLY think the judges will give Crown the benefit of the doubt? HECK NO. (nor should they, IMO, which I said in the original CI post back in 2007) Taking that logic further, what if Crown DOES do something very special, and surpasses all historical expectation, and plays to such a level that EVERYONE thinks they're #1. They MIGHT win. But I predict they'll come in 2nd, by a tenth, to Cadets. THEN, in 2010, as long as Crown reaches that same potential, they'll have a much greater chance at winning. But they'll be going up against some ###### off corps in 2010, and there's a another whole set of subtle CI built into that, but I won't go into it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavarium Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 And that's exactly the point! HISTORY has shown to be more accurate than any pre-season account! (Which is sad, actually)For Crown to win in 2009, they'll have to do a few things never before done: 1) Win w/o coming in 2nd or 3rd in a prior year 2) Win w/o winning a single caption during finals week in a prior year 3) Win w/o beating everyone else in a prior year (I don't think they've beaten Blue Devils or Cavies yet, but I might be wrong) Especially 2009...it just won't happen. All of the pressure will be on the judges to reward Cadets. Cadets have all of the hype. They're in their 75th year; they've changed their name; they're playing WSS; they've been hyping this since last summer, even before 2008 DCI Finals was over! They're going to be GREAT, and we all know it. The judges know it. (expectation...is huge in CI) Let's assume--just for fun--that Crown will MATCH that intensity and excellence. Do you REALLY think the judges will give Crown the benefit of the doubt? HECK NO. (nor should they, IMO, which I said in the original CI post back in 2007) Taking that logic further, what if Crown DOES do something very special, and surpasses all historical expectation, and plays to such a level that EVERYONE thinks they're #1. They MIGHT win. But I predict they'll come in 2nd, by a tenth, to Cadets. THEN, in 2010, as long as Crown reaches that same potential, they'll have a much greater chance at winning. But they'll be going up against some ###### off corps in 2010, and there's a another whole set of subtle CI built into that, but I won't go into it now. all good points that I hadn't taken into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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