WHO has the most room to GROW

[corps8294]

Alright, I see that it's time for a refresher...

A. It's Bluecoats. Not Blue Coats

B. It's Blue Stars. Not Blue Star

Carry on

[supersop]

Alright, I see that it's time for a refresher...

A. It's Bluecoats. Not Blue Coats

B. It's Blue Stars. Not Blue Star

Carry on

OMFG DID I DO THAT?

Sorry Bluecoats Nation. It's 8am, the church bells are ringing and I still haven't slept.

[emc2]

Phantom always comes on hard the last part of July through August- how on earth is everyone counting them out of a top 3 finish?

Cadets have a very difficult book and are attempting a lot- it's 'classic' drum corps, no talking, no singing or beat-boxing... seems like lots of room to grow- you know Hop works those kids harder than any other corps out there (that's coming from an alum of another corps.. it's just common knowledge) and they can clean with the best of them...

honorable mention to Bluecoats- not saying they are top 3 or going for a ring or anything- but I've seen several prediction polls with them NOT in the top 7... are you serious? Have you actually seen the show?

I think Boston has the most room to grow. They have a great overall show from a design stand point and a very talented group of musicians as well as a talented staff. Their overall show is second to none, that I have seen and provides all with various emotions and enjoyment. There show is light years ahead of what it was last year and may be the best show preformed by Boston in the last several years. Have a great day.

[Phantombari1]

Being the first to say Santa Clara has a shot at winning the championship if they add more difficulty to the drill is somethjing I still stand by.

Cadets have just a good a shot if they can clean their product enough.

Right now as it stands I have...

BD

Crown

Cadets

SCV

Cavies

Phantom

Bluecoats

If all the corps hit their potential (My opinion only). (IMO) The top 3 are already locked in.

SCV (Top 3 Lock)

Cadets (Top 3 Lock)

BD (Top 3 Lock)

Crown

Phantom

Cavies

Bluecoats

[greenland]

I think Boston has the most room to grow. They have a great overall show from a design stand point and a very talented group of musicians as well as a talented staff. Their overall show is second to none, that I have seen and provides all with various emotions and enjoyment. There show is light years ahead of what it was last year and may be the best show preformed by Boston in the last several years. Have a great day.

I agree, once they get the corps out of the rain, they could start surging

[BRASSO]

Most room to grow:

A) Judges panel

b) Bluecoats

c) Boston

d) Phantom Regiment

Edited July 5, 2009 by BRASSO

[Hrothgar15]

Cadets have a very difficult book and are attempting a lot- it's 'classic' drum corps, no talking, no singing or beat-boxing...

There is talking...they are using amped vocals during Cool.

[wesleyrp]

Room to grow, hmmmm. It's always funny that people mention those corps that generally apply this to the top 6 or 7.... Honestly they probably have the least room to grow. I think corps like the Cadets, Crown, BD, SCV, are towards the top because their product is great and execution is extremely high. They might tweak some things, but a corps of that caliber is not going to do a lot of rewrites and the end product will be similiar to what it started. I feel the corps that widely get ignored or no press are the incredible corps between 8-15 or so.... Those are the corps that have the most room to grow. Mostly the corps like BK, BS, and Boston who are on the cusp of getting up to the next tier have the most to grow. Usually and there is no exception they are dirtier and are pushing themselves to do a program that is more challenging than before and takes more time to clean... These three corps, BK, BS, BAC have the most room to grow imho. The next most room to grow is: Troop, Madison, Spirit, G-Men, Colts and Academy... These corps are going to push themselves and each other all season long in the battle to make finals.... That is going to push them to do some rewrites as needed and one up each other in terms of creativity in order to get an edge... Just my thoughts....

Wes P

BK '97 '98

[jwillis35]

Having room to grow is not just an issue of cleaning, show rewrites, edits and tweaks, adding demand, or any of those types of improvements, it also has a lot to do with the maximum number of points a particular show can generate.

Even when designs are fixed and performance is better, the show itself may still be a dud or perhaps only marginally good. You can take a show that is not-so-good at the beginning of the season, and it's not very understandable. Then the staff fixes the understandable part, so now I get it, but it's still a mediocre-at-best show. The audience just understands what is taking place, so the show is readable. None of this gives the show impact, presence, GE and so forth. It simply cleans up the story line, but bringing that story line to the audience (and judges) and selling it takes much more.

So there are some common misperceptions that people must understand:

1. Demand is not the most important ingredient for winning or placing high.

2. General Effect is not just playing loud and having impact moments in your show.

3. Integration of guard is not always necessary, but understanding when and how to do this at times during the show IS NECESSARY!

4. Musical Arranging plays a big part in the success of the overall music ensemble.

5. The ability of the members to play their drums and brass is the other important ingredient in the music ensemble

6. Visual design does not always have to perfectly mirror the music. It can have its own life and presence at times, just as long as it gives the music what it needs when the GE calls for it.

Let me give some examples now:

We tend to talk demand a lot, and whoever has the demand and can clean it we think will win. But this is not always true. Was Phantom Regiment's brass book that much harder that BD, Crown, or Cadets last year? I say no. It was harder than Cavaliers, yes. But as I listen to BD, Crown, and Cadets...and Bluecoats (who had a very demanding book), I don't see a huge difference. But Phantom has tons of music GE. The music arranging was super good, it flowed well, highlighted the right sections at the right moments, created passion, tension and climax, and the themes were evident and projected to the top box and the fans.

But it takes more than that to win. Phantom also needed a visual program. They are always good, but sometimes not visually good enough for top 3. Last year they were. Were they Cavaliers good, well...maybe not, but their visual book was certainly top 3. At times their visuals were carefully planned to showcase the corps' great marching ability, at times to makes forms and create visual eye candy, and at times it perfectly connected with a visual moment--a musical hit, the battle with the guard, a death scene--to help create intrigue and story. So their drill showcased great marching (technique), beautiful forms (eye candy), and story (drama). These are things that the Cavaliers have always done so well, and Phantom added all that to a masterful music book. Now just integrate the guard when needed without cluttering things and trying to do it all the time, and...you have a winner.

As you can see, generating technique, eye-candy, and drama from a visual program is more important than demand because this will generate GE. No doubt demand can help, but it must be used well. Demand for sake of demand is not GE. Demand within the story and other musical and visual effects can be amazing.

Having only seen the Vanguard on video (FN) I must say I find their show to be AMAZING! They have it all. Well, maybe they do not have super demand, but, as I pointed to earlier, that is overrated. And folks, there is more demand in that SCV show than you think. All those unison lines, the range, and when the tempos get up to what I think they are going to be, look out. But more importantly, SCV has a dangerous show because, much like Crown, the show already works. It has seamless design, beautiful flow, great music arrangements, clear and defined musical and visual goals and effects, and it has world-class drill design that creates all the effects necessary (technique, eye-candy, drama). People seem to think that these guys are going to fade because the show is not hard enough. No way!!! This show is top 3 when it's all said and done.

I see it being Crown, Cadets, and SCV in the top 3 at the end. Not sure of the order, although I still think the Cadets have the show.

In the Cadets case, yes, they have plenty of demand. But I disagree with some, I think they also have a great flow to the music and visuals. The show works, and that is why they are one of the crowd favorites at all the shows they have been to. Their music book does need a few tweaks to highlight some of the tempo changes or impact points, but that is relatively minor. The brass and percussion material is very solid for the most part. The visual book, IMO, is better than Crown. Crown starts great, middle is a bit weak, then they end fabulous. I think the Cadets book is more readable already, and will only strengthen with some cleaning and minor tweaks. But they have the technical things that impress, the eye-candy, and the dramatic hit point effects to be top 3. So does Crown for the most part.

So IMO, having the most room to grow is a bad thing. Having the goods and just needing to tweak things, clean, pick up tempos, more cleaning, and then sprinkle in a few layers of color or emotion or visual eye-candy or drama and, well...that is where you want to be. To this point the shows that have all the goods--the great flow, connection of music and visual, integration of guard, clear and precise story line--are Carolina Crown, Cadets, Blue Devils, and Santa Clara Vanguard.

The others are good. Very good! I like a lot of things I am seeing this year, and I never fail to have fun at a show. But if we were to be nit picky, then the above 4 are the one I would put in the top 4 at the end of the season.

[rwmoore001]

Having room to grow is not just an issue of cleaning, show rewrites, edits and tweaks, adding demand, or any of those types of improvements, it also has a lot to do with the maximum number of points a particular show can generate.

Even when designs are fixed and performance is better, the show itself may still be a dud or perhaps only marginally good. You can take a show that is not-so-good at the beginning of the season, and it's not very understandable. Then the staff fixes the understandable part, so now I get it, but it's still a mediocre-at-best show. The audience just understands what is taking place, so the show is readable. None of this gives the show impact, presence, GE and so forth. It simply cleans up the story line, but bringing that story line to the audience (and judges) and selling it takes much more.

So there are some common misperceptions that people must understand:

1. Demand is not the most important ingredient for winning or placing high.

2. General Effect is not just playing loud and having impact moments in your show.

3. Integration of guard is not always necessary, but understanding when and how to do this at times during the show IS NECESSARY!

4. Musical Arranging plays a big part in the success of the overall music ensemble.

5. The ability of the members to play their drums and brass is the other important ingredient in the music ensemble

6. Visual design does not always have to perfectly mirror the music. It can have its own life and presence at times, just as long as it gives the music what it needs when the GE calls for it.

Let me give some examples now:

We tend to talk demand a lot, and whoever has the demand and can clean it we think will win. But this is not always true. Was Phantom Regiment's brass book that much harder that BD, Crown, or Cadets last year? I say no. It was harder than Cavaliers, yes. But as I listen to BD, Crown, and Cadets...and Bluecoats (who had a very demanding book), I don't see a huge difference. But Phantom has tons of music GE. The music arranging was super good, it flowed well, highlighted the right sections at the right moments, created passion, tension and climax, and the themes were evident and projected to the top box and the fans.

But it takes more than that to win. Phantom also needed a visual program. They are always good, but sometimes not visually good enough for top 3. Last year they were. Were they Cavaliers good, well...maybe not, but their visual book was certainly top 3. At times their visuals were carefully planned to showcase the corps' great marching ability, at times to makes forms and create visual eye candy, and at times it perfectly connected with a visual moment--a musical hit, the battle with the guard, a death scene--to help create intrigue and story. So their drill showcased great marching (technique), beautiful forms (eye candy), and story (drama). These are things that the Cavaliers have always done so well, and Phantom added all that to a masterful music book. Now just integrate the guard when needed without cluttering things and trying to do it all the time, and...you have a winner.

As you can see, generating technique, eye-candy, and drama from a visual program is more important than demand because this will generate GE. No doubt demand can help, but it must be used well. Demand for sake of demand is not GE. Demand within the story and other musical and visual effects can be amazing.

Having only seen the Vanguard on video (FN) I must say I find their show to be AMAZING! They have it all. Well, maybe they do not have super demand, but, as I pointed to earlier, that is overrated. And folks, there is more demand in that SCV show than you think. All those unison lines, the range, and when the tempos get up to what I think they are going to be, look out. But more importantly, SCV has a dangerous show because, much like Crown, the show already works. It has seamless design, beautiful flow, great music arrangements, clear and defined musical and visual goals and effects, and it has world-class drill design that creates all the effects necessary (technique, eye-candy, drama). People seem to think that these guys are going to fade because the show is not hard enough. No way!!! This show is top 3 when it's all said and done.

I see it being Crown, Cadets, and SCV in the top 3 at the end. Not sure of the order, although I still think the Cadets have the show.

In the Cadets case, yes, they have plenty of demand. But I disagree with some, I think they also have a great flow to the music and visuals. The show works, and that is why they are one of the crowd favorites at all the shows they have been to. Their music book does need a few tweaks to highlight some of the tempo changes or impact points, but that is relatively minor. The brass and percussion material is very solid for the most part. The visual book, IMO, is better than Crown. Crown starts great, middle is a bit weak, then they end fabulous. I think the Cadets book is more readable already, and will only strengthen with some cleaning and minor tweaks. But they have the technical things that impress, the eye-candy, and the dramatic hit point effects to be top 3. So does Crown for the most part.

So IMO, having the most room to grow is a bad thing. Having the goods and just needing to tweak things, clean, pick up tempos, more cleaning, and then sprinkle in a few layers of color or emotion or visual eye-candy or drama and, well...that is where you want to be. To this point the shows that have all the goods--the great flow, connection of music and visual, integration of guard, clear and precise story line--are Carolina Crown, Cadets, Blue Devils, and Santa Clara Vanguard.

The others are good. Very good! I like a lot of things I am seeing this year, and I never fail to have fun at a show. But if we were to be nit picky, then the above 4 are the one I would put in the top 4 at the end of the season.

????????? So in other words, it's all subjective, there are no rules, and it really, basically, comes down to what the judges want to see.