Spirit's Scores going down?

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

Brass and colorguard did not have separate scores until the full panels were instituted. There were some who predicted that scores would go down for Spirit after July 4th precisely for this reason. There's some very nice brass moments, but I'd be surprised if there's enough brass participation in the show for a brass judge to be able to give a great brass score.

That's probably not the whole story because the other captions are also suffering, but it isn't only a matter of judges in on the field and in the stands judging the same things differently.

The GE captions and percussion caption has been the most inconsistent for Spirit. Before the full panel they were getting better GE marks that those corps they wish to compete with for a finals placement--now they are 2 to 3 points lower in those captions. How did the addition of a brass, colorguard and percussion judge change the GE?

[BigBadMadMan]

Are you really surprised that someone would take offense to a comment like this:

"The whole thing just has "desperation" written all over it. I guess when you're desperate to make finals, you're willing to do just about anything you have to do, regardless of how silly or obvious it might be. Kind of pathetic, IMO."

Yep, that was you, a few weeks ago, talking about Spirit's show.

This is a perfect example of where interpretation makes all the difference. Up until the last sentence, this was an honest assessment as to "why". Try reading that without a sarcastic or condescending tone, as that's not what was intended. Many corps have done things that on the surface seemed desperate...as missing finals several years in a row can be a "death nail" to a world class corps. It affects your money, recruiting, exposure, etc. I know the feel the pressure of needing to make finals. That can sometimes lead the staff to resort to "gimmicky" things for effect, as I believe this to be, since it is a LIBERAL interpretation of the rules and something they knew FULL WELL would cause controversy. That was a risk they were willing to take. So that's how I meant that comment. I agree that it wasn't expanded on enough to provide the full picture of what I meant.

As for the last sentence, I probably used the wrong word. I was thinking "pathetic" as in "sad"...that it truly made me sad because I've always loved Spirit's contributions to the activity in the past (back to the old SoA days) and just didn't expect this from them.

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

This is a perfect example of where interpretation makes all the difference. Up until the last sentence, this was an honest assessment as to "why". Try reading that without a sarcastic or condescending tone, as that's not what was intended. Many corps have done things that on the surface seemed desperate...as missing finals several years in a row can be a "death nail" to a world class corps. It affects your money, recruiting, exposure, etc. I know the feel the pressure of needing to make finals. That can sometimes lead the staff to resort to "gimmicky" things for effect, as I believe this to be, since it is a LIBERAL interpretation of the rules and something they knew FULL WELL would cause controversy. That was a risk they were willing to take. So that's how I meant that comment. I agree that it wasn't expanded on enough to provide the full picture of what I meant.

As for the last sentence, I probably used the wrong word. I was thinking "pathetic" as in "sad"...that it truly made me sad because I've always loved Spirit's contributions to the activity in the past (back to the old SoA days) and just didn't expect this from them.

The real reason your post get interpreted the way they do is because Spirit is trying to compete with Madison and Colts right now, and you are a Madison and Colts alumn and we are Spirit alumns. It's not like we expect you to wish Spirit well at the expense of your two corps and the feeling is definitely mutual--it is a competitive activity and all. You have a lot to say about Spirit's show and we for the most part haven't picked at Colts' and Madison's show. I do realize this is a thread about Spirit's score going down, but you have been VERY forward with your opinions of Spirit this season. We get it--Spirit will not be in finals this year especially if you have anything to do with it. I mean maybe if Madison can get 10th and Colts 11th, then maybe you can squeeze Spirit in at 12th just to be a good sport about it.

Edited July 7, 2009 by SpiritofAtlanta99

[cowtown]

if it was a bad design it should have been judged accordingly from the beginning.

Design plays more as the season progresses, as the shows get cleaner the design flaws become more apparent – at the start, most get the benefit of the doubt and its mostly execution being judge, hence, they executed well at the start (because they had an easy book IMO) so they started well

Madison did a much better job with their theme - it was easy to get, super hero

if you take out the narration from spirit's show, there is no way you could figure out that it was Live in Concert, they have to tell you....the only hint I got of rock show was a contra pretending to strum their horn which didn't look 'rock' like - it looked goofy

rock is about attitude, being cool, being current – kind of the antitheist of marching band but even if a marching band could pull it off, Spirit didn’t

where were the groupies, the big hair, the waving hands in the air, the rushing the stage, the hook them horns devil fingers…where were the rock star/ show clichés?

the only one they hit was ‘thank you Michigan city’ or something like that which struck me as a miss because it’s suppose to be ‘we love you Michigan city, no one rocks like you do, thank you and good night’…and it has to be delivered in a rock star voice...not the same voice that gives stage cues

I think the show is going to keep dropping (not in score but relative to other corps) if they don’t tighten up the theme and sell it better, add some musical demand, more horns and fill out write out all those holes in the drill (those were holes, right? Not some visual problems?

I’m not harshing on Spirit to harsh on Spirit – I’m not even going off on their bass player which I hate because this show has much bigger issues

what they did get right, they know their drum line is their strength and featured them a bunch, good drum line staging in the drill to the point it almost looks like they are trying to cover up their weaker areas

and that start with a drum solo, not working for me

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

Design plays more as the season progresses, as the shows get cleaner the design flaws become more apparent – at the start, most get the benefit of the doubt and its mostly execution being judge, hence, they executed well at the start (because they had an easy book IMO) so they started well

Madison did a much better job with their theme - it was easy to get, super hero

if you take out the narration from spirit's show, there is no way you could figure out that it was Live in Concert, they have to tell you....the only hint I got of rock show was a contra pretending to strum their horn which didn't look 'rock' like - it looked goofy

rock is about attitude, being cool, being current – kind of the antitheist of marching band but even if a marching band could pull it off, Spirit didn’t

where were the groupies, the big hair, the waving hands in the air, the rushing the stage, the hook them horns devil fingers…where were the rock star/ show clichés?

the only one they hit was ‘thank you Michigan city’ or something like that which struck me as a miss because it’s suppose to be ‘we love you Michigan city, no one rocks like you do, thank you and good night’…and it has to be delivered in a rock star voice...not the same voice that gives stage cues

I think the show is going to keep dropping (not in score but relative to other corps) if they don’t tighten up the theme and sell it better, add some musical demand, more horns and fill out write out all those holes in the drill (those were holes, right? Not some visual problems?

I’m not harshing on Spirit to harsh on Spirit – I’m not even going off on their bass player which I hate because this show has much bigger issues

what they did get right, they know their drum line is their strength and featured them a bunch, good drum line staging in the drill to the point it almost looks like they are trying to cover up their weaker areas

and that start with a drum solo, not working for me

I like some of your cliche suggestions that they could incorporate into the show--it would make sense that they would want to do those types of things eventually. So, it's clear that a rock show is harder to pull off than a show about super heros?

[BigBadMadMan]

The real reason your post get interpreted the way they do is because Spirit is trying to compete with Madison and Colts right now, and you are a Madison and Colts alumn and we are Spirit alumns. It's not like we expect you to wish Spirit well at the expense of your two corps and the feeling is definitely mutual--it is a competitive activity and all. You have a lot to say about Spirit's show and we for the most part haven't picked at Colts' and Madison's show. I do realize this is a thread about Spirit's score going down, but you have been VERY forward with your opinions of Spirit this season. We get it--Spirit will not be in finals this year especially if you have anything to do with it. I mean maybe if Madison can get 10th and Colts 11th, then maybe you can squeeze Spirit in at 12th just to be a good sport about it.

First of all, there was a jab at the Scouts guard uniform earlier in this very thread. And secondly, you've got me all wrong. The ONLY gripe I have or have had is the use of the electric guitar and electric bass. Other than that, i'm fine with Spirit. And that has nothing to do with the competitive element. I believe I got jumped all over for questioning 3 and 4 point jumps at the Milwaukee show...complete with people telling me I was only questioning it because Spirit and Colts best Madison. My point there was, why give an anomalous score only to drop it back down when they see different competition? Which, I might add, has now happened. Was that fair to the members who think they just performed their best show to date, only to see their scores continue to drop?

Maybe now I don't seem so crazy...I dunno.

Edited July 7, 2009 by BigBadMadMan

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

First of all, there was a jab at the Scouts guard uniform earlier in this very thread. And secondly, you've got me all wrong. The ONLY gripe I have or have had is the use of the electric guitar and electric bass. Other than that, i'm fine with Spirit. And that has nothing to do with the competitive element. I believe I got jumped all over for questioning 3 and 4 point jumps at the Milwaukee show...complete with people telling me I was only questioning it because Spirit and Colts best Madison. My point there was, why give an anomalous score only to drop it back down when they see different competition? Which, I might add, has now happened. Was that fair to the members who think they just performed their best show to date, only to see their scores continue to drop.

Maybe now I don't seem so crazy...I dunno.

Haha.....what you highligted was already explained in "for the most part". That quote should take care of the one jab about those colorguard unis.

At that Milwaukee show Spirit placed where they did because of GE and the percussion, so why did those scores change with the addition of a brass and colorguard judge? You know that Madison's and Spirit's guards both have some work to do, and Madison's brass beat Spirit by a point--well, what happen to the other captions ie...percussion and ge?

It's a coincidence that Spirit's score went down below Madison's--its not that they were not better at that South Milwaukee show.

You seem the same to me...

Edited July 7, 2009 by SpiritofAtlanta99

[trwiggin]

Maybe they need to watch the Blue Man Groups "How to be a Rockstar" to get all the cliches needed to make the show work!

[HockeyDad]

I like some of your cliche suggestions that they could incorporate into the show--it would make sense that they would want to do those types of things eventually. So, it's clear that a rock show is harder to pull off than a show about super heros?

No, I think maybe what people are saying is that a Hard show is harder to pull off than an easier one. And Colts and Scouts shows have more difficulty in them.

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

Maybe they need to watch the Blue Man Groups "How to be a Rockstar" to get all the cliches needed to make the show work!

That's a good idea actually, I mean other corps copy other corps designs and come up with a generic name for the same design, then pass it off as a 'unique' show.