Spirit's Scores going down?

[audiodb]

Oh, and having just seen Spirit twice in person, I find their scores to be pretty much in line with their overall performance level.

Frankly, drums and horns are not up to last year's pace, IMO.

The battery book is far less impressive, with a lot of single-stroke work in features, and a lot of time given up to let the pit (especially the set player) take center stage. I imagine the pit gets more credit than last year, but I don't see it as an even tradeoff (I thought last year's battery was outstanding).

Brass performance suffers from lack of intonation training - trumpets are inconsistent, mellos clash with them. Dust in the Wind has some questionable choices for phrasing. Why so many breath spaces? This is a problem with both the duets/small ensemble work early on, and when the full hornline comes in. The sudden key change with no transition, brash tone and brutal breath gaps ruin the mood of the piece. Please teach the line how to stagger-breathe. Spirit was one of the first hornlines to develop this technique way back when....

Visually, things seem vastly improved over last year, so much so as to keep Spirit in the same overall position as last year's standings.

I won't comment on electronics here....I think the above issues have more impact on the scores anyway.

[Sideways]

Wow, I'm impressed!

SIX real replies before the personal attacks started!

That must be a record for DCP.

You never saw the old Current Events forum did you?

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

Oh, and having just seen Spirit twice in person, I find their scores to be pretty much in line with their overall performance level.

Frankly, drums and horns are not up to last year's pace, IMO.

The battery book is far less impressive, with a lot of single-stroke work in features, and a lot of time given up to let the pit (especially the set player) take center stage. I imagine the pit gets more credit than last year, but I don't see it as an even tradeoff (I thought last year's battery was outstanding).

Brass performance suffers from lack of intonation training - trumpets are inconsistent, mellos clash with them. Dust in the Wind has some questionable choices for phrasing. Why so many breath spaces? This is a problem with both the duets/small ensemble work early on, and when the full hornline comes in. The sudden key change with no transition, brash tone and brutal breath gaps ruin the mood of the piece. Please teach the line how to stagger-breathe. Spirit was one of the first hornlines to develop this technique way back when....

Visually, things seem vastly improved over last year, so much so as to keep Spirit in the same overall position as last year's standings.

I won't comment on electronics here....I think the above issues have more impact on the scores anyway.

No thank you for your current opinions of Spirit's brass and percussion. I find it to be a bit much because I've at least heard them play a few times, and while it wasn't perfect--intonation, brash ton and brutal breath gaps, mellos clashing with the trumpets and trumpets being inconsistent doesn't describe Spirit's hornline. Please don't throw in the kitchen sink in hopes that something sticks. The percussion is just fine too. So, according to you its not just that its a rock show using electronics--Spirit just isn't doing anything right, right?

Edited July 9, 2009 by SpiritofAtlanta99

[audiodb]

No thank you for your current opinions of Spirit's brass and percussion. I find it to be a bit much because I've at least heard them play a few times, and while it wasn't perfect--intonation, brash ton and brutal breath gaps, mellos clashing with the trumpets and trumpets being inconsistent doesn't describe Spirit's hornline. Please don't throw in the kitchen sink in hopes that something sticks. The percussion is just fine too. So, according to you its not just that its a rock show using electronics--Spirit just isn't doing anything right, right?

No, you caught me. I made the whole thing up. Spirit should be pulling 90s right now. #### judges and their personal vendettas.

(/sarcasm)

Back to reality for a minute.

1. So you didn't read the part where I said their visual show is vastly improved this year?

2. Have you been to a show lately? If not, maybe you should buy the new APDs coming out from the Michigan City and Fairfield shows ($upport your alma mater at the same time). Then you can hear precisely what I'm talking about.

Sometimes, corps placement and scoring actually reflects the relative quality of their performances. If you are not prepared to acknowledge even the possibility of that happening, there's nothing left to discuss.

[Anonymous]

I think that scores in the 10-15 place range typically are all over the place do to the make up of these corps. These corps tend to be younger and less experienced corps who tend to be much more inconsistent (probably due to the staff as well in this range). Also, I know that judging this activity is as opinionated as this message topic is. I am sure each judge was brought up in his or her own system. Being raised on a BK diet (I know bad pun), I know I almost never agree with anyone here. Also, scoring will be all over the place in this range because you will not find consistency throughout a show from a corps in this range. I marched all my years in this range and I can tell you that if a judge was in a certain place during the show it could have made the difference between playing the last show or watching it. Good luck to everyone in the finals battle. Thank god my home corps doesn't appear to be in this battle - at least yet!

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

No, you caught me. I made the whole thing up. Spirit should be pulling 90s right now. #### judges and their personal vendettas.

(/sarcasm)

Back to reality for a minute.

1. So you didn't read the part where I said their visual show is vastly improved this year?

2. Have you been to a show lately? If not, maybe you should buy the new APDs coming out from the Michigan City and Fairfield shows ($upport your alma mater at the same time). Then you can hear precisely what I'm talking about.

Sometimes, corps placement and scoring actually reflects the relative quality of their performances. If you are not prepared to acknowledge even the possibility of that happening, there's nothing left to discuss.

1. Yes, I read that part.

2. No, I have not been to a show yet this year. I have seen them rehearse a few times, listened to recordings and watched several videos. I purchased the fan network.

Your attempt at sarcasm well.....yeah. No one said Spirit should be posting 90s, more like 75 and 76s. It kind of odd though, that you bring all of these issuses up with Spirit's hornline and percussion--yet others that don't like Spirit's use of electronics have given good reviews concerning Spirit's brass and percussion. Their complaint was that it left them wanting to hear the hornline more. That's a better issue to have than to hear that Spirit has a crappy hornline which is what you've described, and I don't accept that opinion. You've caught Spirit with their pant's down, i.e. their current lower scoring, and are trying to justify your opinion of them by the sarcastic "#### judges and their personal vendettas." The OP is a Spirit alumn, but he wasn't accusing the judges of any wrong doing in his post. Therefore do not try and make it seem that Spirit's alumni and/or fans are running around saying that dci judges are holding Spirit back. We acknowledge that something is going on, we just don't know what that something is--it's definitely not what you have described. If you don't feel there's anything left here for us to discuss then you should leave this topic alone, because I am going to participate--and I do not agree with you.

Edited July 9, 2009 by SpiritofAtlanta99

[BozzlyB]

No thank you for your current opinions of Spirit's brass and percussion. I find it to be a bit much because I've at least heard them play a few times, and while it wasn't perfect--intonation, brash ton and brutal breath gaps, mellos clashing with the trumpets and trumpets being inconsistent doesn't describe Spirit's hornline. Please don't throw in the kitchen sink in hopes that something sticks. The percussion is just fine too. So, according to you its not just that its a rock show using electronics--Spirit just isn't doing anything right, right?

Look, no offense, but it is pretty clear by your posts and your affiliation that Spirit could take a giant crap on the field and you'd be questioning their poor scores. I've seen them and also think their design this year is poor and ineffective. Their drumline is too big for their talent and just sounds muddy. You don't have to like it, but it's true.

[SpiritofAtlanta99]

Look, no offense, but it is pretty clear by your posts and your affiliation that Spirit could take a giant crap on the field and you'd be questioning their poor scores. I've seen them and also think their design this year is poor and ineffective. Their drumline is too big for their talent and just sounds muddy. You don't have to like it, but it's true.

What you said and what he said are two different things. If you think that their design is poor and ineffective, that's easier for me to understand than if you posted several negative things about the hornline and battery. Likewise, most people yourself included defend their alma maters--that's pretty clear to me.

Lets list some things that out here.

1. Some folks have a problem with the instrumentation that Spirit is using in their show.

2. Some folks have a problem with Spirit's show design and its effectiveness.

3. Some folks have given Spirit good reviews on visual, brass and drumline.

4. Tonight someone decided that the reason for Spirit's score going down is: intonation, brash ton and brutal breath gaps, mellos clashing with the trumpets and trumpets being inconsistent.

5. The latest review on dcp of the Kingsport, TN show "Holy crowd reaction batman"--the crowd must have loved it.

Now, If Spirit is pleasing the majority of the crowd enough to get that kind of a reaction then these problems that "some" and "someone" have with the show must be questionable. I do apologize for being protective of my corps, but I feel that my corps is being disrespected--its the same as if it were my child, I have a responsibility to protect it. I do not mean to be argumentative necessarilly, but sometimes when I read dcp it gets a little discerning when an off the wall comment is made about any corps for the matter. Other corps have members, fans and alumni that are going to defend their corps just like I am willing to do for mine.

Edited July 9, 2009 by SpiritofAtlanta99

[Galen]

My quick, 2 am guess- they're struggling to put together a consistent show in all sections on a night-by-night basis.

Something just about every corps goes through at times.

[RnBeans]

Yeah, I have actually been completely unimpressed by various Spirit hornlines (and some drumlines, sorry Clint) since we marched in '99, but I'm on board with SpiritOfAtlanta99. I DON'T think the scores are the hornline this year, though they do have their issues, and the drumline has some serious dirt, but it's not so bad as audiodb has said, and I think it's a step up, overall...seems the drum judges generally agree, too. If you pay attention to recaps, it's mostly visual. I've seen a few rehearsals and watched/listened to FN broadcasts/downloads.

I would agree with the judges. Perhaps not in the crazy low scores, but in the ranking, probably.

And if you're going to use electronics, Spirit's doing it the right way! The whole notion as Darth Hopkins presented it, is that you use the electronics to create a more appropriate mood for the specific material (I think the quote was something like "if you're doing a show about the ocean, you should be able to use a sample of the ocean"...which is a vast oversimplification of the idea). What is Kansas but guitars and Hammond organ? BTW, I dig Crossmen and Bluecoats use of electronics, too. Very, very mood inducing.

We got bagged early on in '99, so I know what that feels like. Then, before the middle of the season, it became EXACTLY what we earned. I wonder if member retention has anything to do with the attitudes created by negativity on web forums...I know that wasn't the problem before the net, but things change with the times. Criticism is fair...and when constructive, it can be very helpful...but to give a simple list of perceived problems isn't constructive, it's destructive.

SOA99, are you on Facebook? PM me and let me know. I'm trying to get to know some of the people who were hauling butt behind me at all those rehearsals and shows whilst I had my head buried in the vibraphone (or under it, trying to fix it). Amazing how much weight you can lose playing in the pit when the food is bad!