DCI finals review

[Matt_S]

My roommate marched with me in high school. He's nowhere near as interested in DCI as I am, but he attends at least one show with me each year. The Blue Devils had one of his three favorite shows of the night at semifinals.

[liebot]

Well this thread officially killed DCP for me. . . It blows my mind that people really think BD didn't have the same visual demand as other corps. . . . I guess that's what I get for being away from DCP all summer. . . I was unaware the "knowledgeable" fans here decided BD's visual program was weak.

They moved more than any other corps on the field Saturday night, except maybe Cadets. It's beyond absurd for anyone to say otherwise.

[liebot]

Cleanest corps out there Saturday. I don't see anyone disagreeing with that. But can we stop with this charade that it was up there in terms of difficulty with most of the other top corps? Not even close.

You are wrong.

[Plan9]

It's not about hating BD or not, I think far to many pro-BD people are taking that stance in order to play the victim here. The simple fact is that no amount of rationalization is going to sell the inferred demand of the chairs to most avid fans of the activity. In a year or two, perhaps more BD fans will be able to stand back and truly re-evaluate this show and see what the rest of us are seeing.

Personally, I'm a big BD fan. I loved most of the corps shows from 1986-2006 (with 2005 as a notable exception), but I simply can't believe the corps won with what they put out this year. I'm not particularly fond of Crown, though, I think they are quickly becoming one of my favorite corps.

So, what is the real problem here - the quality of BD's design, or what the judges are rewarding?

Reading this thread (and talking to many other fans of different corps affiliations), I really think the disconnect is with the judges. Part of my issue with modern judging is the inability to rank corps based on the strengths of the individual captions. [That is, a corps should be able to be top 3 in a performance caption, but still place in the bottom of the top 12] The issues with numbers management are quite apparent - though, I suspect DCI is pushing higher scores, because they feel it makes the activity more distinguished. Then, there's the apparent failure to accurately represent the distinction between Repertoire and Performance on the sheets.

BD must be great at selling their shows (I recall a rumor that a certain key staff member was once a used car salesmen), but they really need to start selling to the crowds again. People don't 'boo' when the underdog doesn't win, they 'boo' when they are not satisfied with the champion.

Plan9, you have to accept that this is probably the most forgettable championship show in recent memory (worse than 07 even). The BD crew can take their ring and bragging rights home, but the rest of the activity will always look at it as a bit of a debacle. If BD wants any wide-based non-California crowd support, they better bring a real show next year.

Accept what??? The blue crew took more than a ring and bragging rights home, they also took the 3rd highest score in DCI history, an undefeated season (times two) and what many view as the most inventive and skillfully executed shows ever put on the field. No, it wasn't drum corps the way that some of the you more vocal former marching members (on DCP) remember, it was another level altogether. Perhaps beyond your understanding. As I said, if you were to see into the minds of the other corps show designers, my guess is that they are disecting BD's show right now and finding things they can use next year.

You can talk about disconnect with the judges all you want and find strength in numbers among the other bewildered DCPers, but the facts are undeniable. The facts are on BD's side, and what you see as facts are simply conjecture based on shallow observations of other posters on DCP or (my favorite) "people seated next to me at finals said....." now there's some real facts you can hang your hat on.

"Forgettable" to you perhaps, but burned into the minds of the other show designers, just watch. I guarantee even Hoppy was paying attention. Kaliedoscopic, frenetic drill is a good base but it ain't selling anymore by itself, and Crown knows it and are already on board with BD. All the sprinting and body movement Crown did this year was straight out of BD's 2008 show. And good for them, they get it. Another fact....David Gibbs told the members last year after finals that the nuances of their show would be copied in future years but no one knew it would happen so fast. And it wasn't criticized this year because Crown did it. So I accept that you are most definately behind the times, it happens that way occasionally, but when your favorite corps starts to do some of these things, next year, just remember where it came from.

[Bob984]

Accept what??? The blue crew took more than a ring and bragging rights home, they also took the 3rd highest score in DCI history, an undefeated season (times two) and what many view as the most inventive and skillfully executed shows ever put on the field. No, it wasn't drum corps the way that some of the you more vocal former marching members (on DCP) remember, it was another level altogether. Perhaps beyond your understanding. As I said, if you were to see into the minds of the other corps show designers, my guess is that they are disecting BD's show right now and finding things they can use next year.

You can talk about disconnect with the judges all you want and find strength in numbers among the other bewildered DCPers, but the facts are undeniable. The facts are on BD's side, and what you see as facts are simply conjecture based on shallow observations of other posters on DCP or (my favorite) "people seated next to me at finals said....." now there's some real facts you can hang your hat on.

"Forgettable" to you perhaps, but burned into the minds of the other show designers, just watch. I guarantee even Hoppy was paying attention. Kaliedoscopic, frenetic drill is a good base but it ain't selling anymore by itself, and Crown knows it and are already on board with BD. All the sprinting and body movement Crown did this year was straight out of BD's 2008 show. And good for them, they get it. Another fact....David Gibbs told the members last year after finals that the nuances of their show would be copied in future years but no one knew it would happen so fast. And it wasn't criticized this year because Crown did it. So I accept that you are most definately behind the times, it happens that way occasionally, but when your favorite corps starts to do some of these things, next year, just remember where it came from.

I am 51 years old. I can still play sitting in a chair, posing on a chair, standing on a chair, leaning on a chair, and can march through an interval of straight line chairs at a moderate tempo. (I noticed that Devs did not attempt to march through them at a diagonal, or at a quick tempo, which perhaps WOULD have been at another level) I could not march the end of Cadets show at all anymore. Enough said. And if the above items I mentioned regarding the chairs are at "another level" as you have proclaimed, you have the right to your opinion, as do the judges who called the show. And since you obviously felt the Devs show was "so dominant", let me point out that even with the 99 score, BD did not win brass, ensemble, or overall music. It is also very interesting to point out that they won music effect by both judges in finals, including one who gave a perfect 20, yet were 2nd and 3rd respectively in semifinals. They were also 2nd by one music effect judge in quarters, and 3rd in brass. You talk about Crown "copying" Blue Devils??? Actually, they were compared far more to Star of Indiana, where there were striking similarities at times, but that was probably way before your time. So, fast kaleidoscopic drill isn't selling anymore......I guess the whole crowd on their feet for an extended time during the Cadets ending was just a mirage in my mind that didn't really happen. I didn't see any influence on another corps whatsoever by BD from last year to this year. I guess we are all behind the times as you suggest, and this will be a show of high influence on the future.....NOT!!!!!

GB

[traveller30]

I am 51 years old. I can still play sitting in a chair, posing on a chair, standing on a chair, leaning on a chair, and can march through an interval of straight line chairs at a moderate tempo. (I noticed that Devs did not attempt to march through them at a diagonal, or at a quick tempo, which perhaps WOULD have been at another level) I could not march the end of Cadets show at all anymore. Enough said. And if the above items I mentioned regarding the chairs are at "another level" as you have proclaimed, you have the right to your opinion, as do the judges who called the show. And since you obviously felt the Devs show was "so dominant", let me point out that even with the 99 score, BD did not win brass, ensemble, or overall music. It is also very interesting to point out that they won music effect by both judges in finals, including one who gave a perfect 20, yet were 2nd and 3rd respectively in semifinals. They were also 2nd by one music effect judge in quarters, and 3rd in brass. You talk about Crown "copying" Blue Devils??? Actually, they were compared far more to Star of Indiana, where there were striking similarities at times, but that was probably way before your time. So, fast kaleidoscopic drill isn't selling anymore......I guess the whole crowd on their feet for an extended time during the Cadets ending was just a mirage in my mind that didn't really happen. I didn't see any influence on another corps whatsoever by BD from last year to this year. I guess we are all behind the times as you suggest, and this will be a show of high influence on the future.....NOT!!!!!

GB

They marched diagonally through the block while the guard was also spinning while on the chairs. Not sure what tempo you consider quick though, but hey, we all see what we want to see, right?

[Plan9]

I am 51 years old. I can still play sitting in a chair, posing on a chair, standing on a chair, leaning on a chair, and can march through an interval of straight line chairs at a moderate tempo. (I noticed that Devs did not attempt to march through them at a diagonal, or at a quick tempo, which perhaps WOULD have been at another level) I could not march the end of Cadets show at all anymore. Enough said. And if the above items I mentioned regarding the chairs are at "another level" as you have proclaimed, you have the right to your opinion, as do the judges who called the show. And since you obviously felt the Devs show was "so dominant", let me p. oint out that even with the 99 score, BD did not win brass, ensemble, or overall music. It is also very interesting to point out that they won music effect by both judges in finals, including one who gave a perfect 20, yet were 2nd and 3rd respectively in semifinals. They were also 2nd by one music effect judge in quarters, and 3rd in brass. You talk about Crown "copying" Blue Devils??? Actually, they were compared far more to Star of Indiana, where there were striking similarities at times, but that was probably way before your time. So, fast kaleidoscopic drill isn't selling anymore......I guess the whole crowd on their feet for an extended time during the Cadets ending was just a mirage in my mind that didn't really happen. I didn't see any influence on another corps whatsoever by BD from last year to this year. I guess we are all behind the times as you suggest, and this will be a show of high influence on the future.....NOT!!!!!

GB

I'm not going to lean on my age...it's not a factor for me. But suffice to say that I will not exploit your youth and inexperience for the sake of this debate! You are delusional if you think that Crown didn't used parts of BD's 2008 show...Oh, by the way, one of BD's former vis techs from last year is with Crown this year...Hello, McFly! Also, try looking at the opener among the chairs, there's a manuever called "the razor" diagonal at a break neck speed. You and many others (still marching) couldn't do that in your dreams (also, there's no margin of error, zero!) Although it's just about impossible to see on the video, have someone who knows about visual explain BD's show to you because your endless rambling about the chairs shows you are totally uninformed and blind with prejudice. Again, BD's show was off the charts difficult and will be used for some time by other designers, period! Book it! No manner of your re-living those Wascally Judges numbers can change the facts. Get over it. BD is the best Drum Corps in DCI, and not by .025!!!! Finally, I wasn't slamming the Cadets (I don't do to any corps what you feel free to do the Devs), I mearly said that they were one demensional, they presented a show of fast paced formations that seemed to never end. It was almost an exercise! But eye popping kaleidoscopic drill does not a winner make, not any more! Look for the Cadets to learn from this year! Big Time! And I'm certain it will break your heart! Now take a seat old fella!

[liebot]

They marched diagonally through the block while the guard was also spinning while on the chairs. Not sure what tempo you consider quick though, but hey, we all see what we want to see, right?

Zing.

Finally, I wasn't slamming the Cadets (I don't do to any corps what you feel free to do the Devs), I mearly said that they were one demensional, they presented a show of fast paced formations that seemed to never end. It was almost an exercise!

Bingo. The Cadets approach to visual effect has always been motion (drill) as opposed to movement (body movement, dancing, sitting, posing, chair-slamming, jumping like a samurai, doing the elephant-walk, crawling on the ground, throwing people in the air, any number of other things people did this year or the past couple of years or any year since Star 93). . . . which isn't to say that's the only thing they do (people jumping of pink tables predated Crown throwing people this year) but they're kind of being left behind in an activity that now favors other ways to achieve visual effect.

[Plan9]

Zing.

Bingo. The Cadets approach to visual effect has always been motion (drill) as opposed to movement (body movement, dancing, sitting, posing, chair-slamming, jumping like a samurai, doing the elephant-walk, crawling on the ground, throwing people in the air, any number of other things people did this year or the past couple of years or any year since Star 93). . . . which isn't to say that's the only thing they do (people jumping of pink tables predated Crown throwing people this year) but they're kind of being left behind in an activity that now favors other ways to achieve visual effect.

There, you said it better than I did!

[liebot]

There, you said it better than I did!

And, for what it's worth, I talked to a friend who marched Cadets 07-08 after we both watched finals, and the first thing he said to me was "BD better get a 20 in vis. performance tonight." Then again, he's not exactly the biggest Cadets fan in the world.