Drummers weigh in on new hornline instruments

[Michael Boo]

Apparently youre one of the few. Everyone i talked to thought this was a superior year of drum corps, top to bottom.

Absolutely! :blink:

[AlexL]

Neither is true

Price for most is higher, and the parts are no harder or easier to learn.

The key here though is the resale market. Most corps can turn around and sell their horns for a much higher resale value than they can with G lines. Its more of a total cost of ownership thing.

[j.morgus]

The key here though is the resale market. Most corps can turn around and sell their horns for a much higher resale value than they can with G lines. Its more of a total cost of ownership thing.

For the elite headliners that manufacturers see as a marketing/advertising opportunity and thus give huge discounts to, perhaps.

(from the quoted paper "Peter Bond":

A top-of-the-line Bb trumpet will start around $1200 and go up. The "Marching Brass"

middle-voice instruments seem comparably priced with their bugle counterparts. I don't have the

convertible tuba prices in front of me right now, but they are easy to obtain. Work it out. Keep in

mind that to be competitive, no corps (with the money) is going to buy student model

instruments if something better is available. What is now one of the remaining areas of

competition with a "level playing field" for the both the major powers and the lesser

corps-hornline instrumentation-will tilt toward the guys with the cash.

For less monied or renowned corps, one source of instruments, used horns from the "big boys" has all but dried up, or become less of a bargain. As the market for the used horns now includes thousands of high schools and tens of thousands of band parents, the resale prices are significantly higher than in the G days. One more example of how new rules benefit the highest placing corps much more than those at the other extreme.

[roosevelt]

It's both. But no corps really had that "oh my GOD" sound when the ensemble opened up, save a few (Phantom and Crown come to mind), regardless of the arranging.

Again I ask:

Have you actually seen any drum corps LIVE from the pre-b-flat era?

[MoonHill]

I think it's a lot easier to look at history with rose colored glasses, especially when you're only reference is video from Top 6 corps.

It's unarguable that brass lines now are INFINITELY better than they were even 15 years ago. They play much more in tune than G-bugle playing groups played, and the caption is much more competitive than the mid-90's and earlier. Yes, there were great G-bugle horn lines, but I think that the lower placing corps this year had WAY better sounding horn lines than lower placing corps of 15 + years ago. I will gladly sacrifice volume for better intonation and sound quality.

Unarguable? Infinitely?

Perhaps it's difficult to understand as a percussionist (or as someone so blinded by their "I hate the past" bias)*, but the tuning of hornlines has far, far, far more to do with the quality and care of the instructors and performers than it ever had to do with the fundamental key of the horns. And in the lower-scoring corps, the Bb/F horns they're playing on are just as much a bunch of car-bumpers and repair-pieces as they ever were in the G bugle days.

The low-end is not more in tune than in the olden days, unfortunately. Kids are still being taught to play blatty by staffs that should know better, unfortunately. And it's just as easy to look at the past with crap-colored glasses, when you've got yourself convinced that you're fighting a righteous fight against irrational reactionism.

*no, I'm not really serious with this. I'm just busting chops.

[Hrothgar15]

Again I ask:

Have you actually seen any drum corps LIVE from the pre-b-flat era?

No, and not a day goes by where I don't become a little disheartened over the fact that I didn't discover drum corps soon enough to hear those lines. I'd do pretty much anything to have been able to see those shows live.

I didn't hear about drum corps until 2004, but I've seen some great G bugle hornlines to get my fix. Plus, I'll take listening to a recording of a good G hornline from the '80s or '90s blasting on my surround sound system in my living room over most B-flat hornlines live any day of the week.

Edited August 23, 2009 by Hrothgar15

[Kansan]

Absolutely! :blink:

Overall I like '08 better. This year I did like the Cadets a lot better and I actually paid attention to BAC. I like Crown, Santa Clara, Madison, Blue Coats, Troop, Crossmen and the Improvement of Pioneer.

[oldschooldbc]

No, and not a day goes by where I don't become a little disheartened over the fact that I didn't discover drum corps soon enough to hear those lines. I'd do pretty much anything to have been able to see those shows live.

I didn't hear about drum corps until 2004, but I've seen some great G bugle hornlines to get my fix. Plus, I'll take listening to a recording of a good G hornline from the '80s or '90s blasting on my surround sound system in my living room over a good amount of B-flat hornlines live any day of the week.

I did hear some of the great horn lines of the G era, back in the 1980s. The great G lines of that era were fantastic. The Spirit, BD, and Phantom lines of that era were tremendous. Most of those lines were populated with veterans who had learned to play bugles in lower-ranking corps. They learned how to produce volume, and keep the instrument in tune, with the correct pitch. And yes, they could produce bone-crunching sound volume. When I first heard Spitit's Georgia on my Mind, it was from the non-performance side at a retreat - and it was still phenomenal.

There also were bad and mediocre lines back then. In many cases, there were inexperienced brass musicians who were actually taught to play brass instruments - in drum corps! There were 14-year-old marchers back then, who were learning to play a soprano or baritone in the May camp. They didn't have 5, 6, 7 years of experience on a brass instrument before joining drum corps. Naturally, those horn lines suffered in volume and in pitch, because of the weaker players.

Comparing the eras is so tough. Not only do you have different caliber of instruments, but a different caliber of musician performing - even at the lower levels. Very, very few corps today will take someone with no experience, and put him on a brass line. (I think Pioneer does it - correct me if I am wrong.) Maybe corps should be taking on that function - they are in the business of music education, after all. But today, that simply is not happening.

I would probably give a slight edge to the best lines of the G era, simply based on volume. But the mediocre lines of today are much better than the mediocre lines of the G era, simply because of the level of musicianship, for better or worse, has improved.

Edited August 23, 2009 by oldschooldbc

[perc2100]

Unarguable? Infinitely?

Perhaps it's difficult to understand as a percussionist (or as someone so blinded by their "I hate the past" bias)*, but the tuning of hornlines has far, far, far more to do with the quality and care of the instructors and performers than it ever had to do with the fundamental key of the horns. And in the lower-scoring corps, the Bb/F horns they're playing on are just as much a bunch of car-bumpers and repair-pieces as they ever were in the G bugle days.

The low-end is not more in tune than in the olden days, unfortunately. Kids are still being taught to play blatty by staffs that should know better, unfortunately. And it's just as easy to look at the past with crap-colored glasses, when you've got yourself convinced that you're fighting a righteous fight against irrational reactionism.

*no, I'm not really serious with this. I'm just busting chops.

While I'm a percussionist, I'm also a music teacher.

Regardless, I'm going more by what my colleagues who teach Top 5 drum corps tell me: many of whom have been teaching World Class finalist hornlines for decades. I have no problems believing their battle-tested/in-the-trenches experience more than mine, or other fans.

*edit: got a big smile at the chop busting. Well played, friend

Edited August 23, 2009 by perc2100

[Kansan]

Again I ask:

Have you actually seen any drum corps LIVE from the pre-b-flat era?

I have. My 1st Live show was in 83 in Overland Park, KS. Well I think it was 83. The poster I have from the show doesn't have a year on it.

The linup was:

Crossmen from Philadelphia, PA

Knight Hawks from Houston, TX

Sky Ryders From Hutchinson, KS

Blue Knights from Denver, CO

Emerald Knights from Cedar Rapids, IA

Black Knights from Belleville, Illinois

The show was hosted by my High School Marching Band. The Falcon Regiment of Olathe South High School.ard

What I remember is being in the Press box and getting it by the blast from G Bugle lines. I could actually feel the sound wave hit me in the chest. That is something I have not experienced since from Bb line. I've been to one DCA show and had a good time and witnessed the 23 piece G Bugle Line of Gulf Coast Sound move some stadium bleachers back a couple yards.