Perfect scores.

[Jeff Ream]

I see. Passion evokes passion. None of us would be here if we didn't care. So let me speak as a frustrated old drummer from the 70's who was not around again until the last few years.

The change for me was drastic. From a give and take system to a give and give again system. I just had not been around a philosophy like that since I got gold stars for a good soap carving. So I say to myself ok, drum corps knows what they're doing. Great. I'm in. But then I start looking at caption scores and wonder--how is it these scores are so....quantized as to predict the placement of a horn line simply by what place the corps takes? PR or SCV take 5th therefor 5th in drums, horns, GE etc. Not in every case but enough for me to see what corps was going to finish where at DCI finals this year. People sitting next to me joked that BD was going to win regardless of their performance because the judges have already placed them there--and the folks sitting on the other side of me agreed. (BD's early left side show was a tic farm) So, now I'm supposed to have faith in this kind of result? How would you feel--as a judge--hearing that from fans? The show's pre judged so f@#$ it! This is why I have an opinion here and now.

Ok, perhaps the tick is not the answer, but the "Moore's Law" tactics of today's judging are not working so swell either. The state of drum corps needs a new plan. And I'm sure cooler heads will prevail and exact one soon.

And no, I don't have the answer (yet) so I will again try to listen more than I speak.

if you go look at this years DCI recaps, you will see placements all over the place that do not correlate with the final placement of the total corps

[tommyfromhowardst]

Well there's a couple of wide ranges but most scores seem to be within a couple of places. I guess it is what it is.

[TastyWaves]

I see. Passion evokes passion. None of us would be here if we didn't care. So let me speak as a frustrated old drummer from the 70's who was not around again until the last few years.

The change for me was drastic. From a give and take system to a give and give again system. I just had not been around a philosophy like that since I got gold stars for a good soap carving. So I say to myself ok, drum corps knows what they're doing. Great. I'm in. But then I start looking at caption scores and wonder--how is it these scores are so....quantized as to predict the placement of a horn line simply by what place the corps takes? PR or SCV take 5th therefor 5th in drums, horns, GE etc. Not in every case but enough for me to see what corps was going to finish where at DCI finals this year. People sitting next to me joked that BD was going to win regardless of their performance because the judges have already placed them there--and the folks sitting on the other side of me agreed. (BD's early left side show was a tic farm) So, now I'm supposed to have faith in this kind of result? How would you feel--as a judge--hearing that from fans? The show's pre judged so f@#$ it! This is why I have an opinion here and now.

Ok, perhaps the tick is not the answer, but the "Moore's Law" tactics of today's judging are not working so swell either. The state of drum corps needs a new plan. And I'm sure cooler heads will prevail and exact one soon.

And no, I don't have the answer (yet) so I will again try to listen more than I speak.

I think that any BD fan who was at finals in 08 would contest your opinion that its "pre judged".

PR wasnt even looking like a top 3 corps a few weeks before finals and look what happened.

Also,

take a look at some recaps and see how many times a winning corps does not win a specific subcaption such as percussion or colorguard etc.

it happens quite a bit.

[CCBD05]

[/quote

I marched with and without the tic. I never want to see the tic again and as mentioned before it won't happen. If you check DCA scores in the 60's and 70's you will see there are many occasions where corps scores could jump 5 points from prelims to finals. You beat a corps be 3 points one weekend and lose to the same corps by 4 points a week later. That is why tics were awful, they allowed to much interpretation by the judge. I think the scores this year were right on from top to bottom.

i have to dissagree on the fact that scores were not right this DCA finals. In the case of CorpsVets. They have been killing people in feet and guard all season, and then at finals they are sloted 10th. I do agree that the rest can be justified but not those two.

[DCALugnut]

Hi Friends,

By using the highest score in a sub-caption, a judge is not trying to say that the performance was perfect. The most important task when judging is to rank the groups and rate with the appropriate spreads to ensure that the differences between two groups are reflected in the scoring. The DCA system (along with most valid (WGI, DCI) scoring systems) uses point spread guidelines to classify the score differences that should be used to differntiate between two performances.

In the case of the Buccaneers (or any other drum corps) at finals, the judges that used 100 in a sub-caption were stating that the Bucs were the best performance of the night, and the score was derived either because the point spreads dictated using that score or else it was the only higher score available in that sub-caption.

Either way, 100 doesn't necessarily mean perfect performance and to insist that the performance must be perfect before using that number is a disservice to the judge and the performers.

[donincardona]

this whole thing is off the rails. the scores are the scores and nobody is gonna change it. we may not all agree but that's how shows are judged. listen to peashey. he's been at this forever.

[Jeff Ream]

yeah...when people start getting 10.1 or above, then complain

[Gary Matczak]

yeah...when people start getting 10.1 or above, then complain

what happened in ninety five, remains one hundred and five

Edited September 16, 2009 by Gary Matczak

[CorpsBuff]

Hi Friends,

By using the highest score in a sub-caption, a judge is not trying to say that the performance was perfect. The most important task when judging is to rank the groups and rate with the appropriate spreads to ensure that the differences between two groups are reflected in the scoring. The DCA system (along with most valid (WGI, DCI) scoring systems) uses point spread guidelines to classify the score differences that should be used to differntiate between two performances.

In the case of the Buccaneers (or any other drum corps) at finals, the judges that used 100 in a sub-caption were stating that the Bucs were the best performance of the night, and the score was derived either because the point spreads dictated using that score or else it was the only higher score available in that sub-caption.

Either way, 100 doesn't necessarily mean perfect performance and to insist that the performance must be perfect before using that number is a disservice to the judge and the performers.

So why aren't corps getting 100's at wildwood?

[DCALugnut]

So why aren't corps getting 100's at wildwood?

Because they do not meet the criteria in Box 5, yet. To earn a sub-caption 100 you have to first meet the box 5 criteria and then be deemed better than every other drum corps that evening. It's certainly possible to perform well enough in June to earn a Box 5 score, but we all know that's rather unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.