Phantombari1 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) kstein I agree to a point. I believe he is a visionary and great leader that will allow his team to do what they do best. Quality, Quality, Quality while being on the cutting edge at the same time! Edited October 2, 2009 by Phantombari1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavies79 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I look forward to Madison improving with Mr. Mason and his fellow Star/Blast comrades. However, there is a big piece to the puzzle missing that helped the 1985 Star of Indiana. His name is George Zingali. I personally believe that George's creative genius had a lot to do with Star's success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass5 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I really think that Jim Mason and his design team's resumes from the last 10-15 years has a lot more bearing on the subject than what Jim did or didn't do 25 years ago. Of course Zingali & Cook's $ had a lot to do with Star's leap to success. What I see from 1985 on is that Jim Mason has always surrounded himself with very talented people and he seems to be doing the same thing now. Jim having been a Scout back in the day is a very very big part of the "success in Madison" equation I'm looking forward to. Best of luck to the Men of Madison in 2010. I do realize nothing at all will be handed to them and they'll have to earn every tenth of a point it will take to bring them back into the top 12. I was really impressed with how many corps in the 10 thru 17 crowd in 2009 were so much better than they were in 2008. I expect nothing but the same in 2010. Go Scouts!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeabrass Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Probably because those who were there know just how little he had to do with Star's success, particularly in the early years. The corps was run quite ably by far more experienced and talented people on the administrative side, staff side, and support side. The first year corps also had veteran marching members at every key position. The revisionist historians trying to paint Mason as a great leader and visionary who was personally responsible for dragging Star into 10th place in 1985 have it completely and utterly wrong. You know I'm not a homer when it comes to Jim for obvious reasons, but your point doesn't hold water when he's managed to take a huge chunk of the staff that made Star click over to Madison. Madison isn't a brand new corps and will have vets at every key position too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstein Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 You know I'm not a homer when it comes to Jim for obvious reasons, but your point doesn't hold water when he's managed to take a huge chunk of the staff that made Star click over to Madison. Madison isn't a brand new corps and will have vets at every key position too. You're missing my point. I don't believe he's "the answer", and I'm not sure how many people in key positions will be spending enough significant time there to turn this thing around quickly. For anyone who wasn't there to assume that he was the reason the corps (Star) was successful in the mid-80's is simply ill-informed. Frankly, it should be a heck of a lot easier to take an established corps from just out of Finals to the Saturday night show than it was to take a group that didn't exist a year before into Finals. But there were many, many less "advertised" and "hyped" parts that made that possible; it certainly wasn't because of the "visionary greatness" of one guy. Zingali certainly helped push that group farther/faster than anyone thought they could go. DeLucia's steady hand and far reaching influence was another huge factor. Veteran leaders like Moe LaTour and Bob Lendman driving everything behind the scenes. Key veterans in the corps from organizations that really knew how to win, and other internal leaders determined to set the right tone and attitude. We have yet to see how things play out in the Madison staff and corps. It's not one guy; it almost never is. What I can speak to from experience was it certainly wasn't that guy in that year with that particular pink corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLeadSop Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Sometimes, all it takes is a momentum swing (in fact, my alma mater corps had the same "momentum" effect going on while I marched). I think the boys in green have momentum on their side with these new staff developments, and hopefully they have the passion and excitement to drive them to success. I'm excited to see where the corps goes in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstein Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 The one thing I am absolutely certain of: it has been far, far too long since I've heard some of Jimmer's wonderful charts performed by a DVD hornline and I'm really looking forward to that. The rest will probably work itself out eventually. Cheers, and TGIF! Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 The differences behind Star's entrance into DCI with Mason's backing, and Mason becoming involved with Madison are significant to the point of being incomparable. Personally I disagree with your statement of that era of drum corps being more compettitive. Frankly I think the reason Star made it into top 12 their first year was because of a LACK of compettition in the low end of top 12, and a huge drop off in compettitiveness in the Semi's range. The battle for finals these days is MUCH more compettitive than it was back then.At this point, I think Madison could place anywhere from 9th to 14th next year, give or take 8 places. I gotta disagree with you. It was definitely more competitive back then. Star made finals with hard work, a full corps, and great design and know how. The battle for finals these days boils down to knowing who is going to be in after the first regional. That's not really competition to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 that and the cash backing of the cook group !! The cash only served to ensure that they could get down the road without problems, had a great design, and that members could know that they were with a stable group. It still boiled down to the corps, not the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) Probably because those who were there know just how little he had to do with Star's success, particularly in the early years. The corps was run quite ably by far more experienced and talented people on the administrative side, staff side, and support side. The first year corps also had veteran marching members at every key position. The revisionist historians trying to paint Mason as a great leader and visionary who was personally responsible for dragging Star into 10th place in 1985 have it completely and utterly wrong. He's the one that made all the right decisions in order to get the more experienced and talented people on the administrative side, staff side, and support side to come on board. It's all very connected. ...and I am very aware that it wasn't just "Mason". He did, however, pick the team. He continued to pick a good team. He's gotta get some of the credit too. Edited October 2, 2009 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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