Grumpy Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Remember back when you went to a drum corps show and you watched and listened to be entertained? Yes, this is a competition but there are already people in the press box and on the field charged with the task of judging the corps...no amount of complaining or whining on DCP or to your fellow spectators is going to influence those decisions. One 100% certainty is that not every person in the audience will agree with the judges. Do the judges always get it right? Of course not...neither do MLB umpires, NFL referees, figure skating judges, stockbrokers or meteorologists. Do the corps always get it right? Sadly, some don't seem to "get it" at all. I still go to drum corps shows for one primary reason...because I enjoy drum corps performances. I enjoy some more than others, and as long as I am entertained by more than I don't care for, I will continue to go. Just because I don't enjoy a particular corps doesn't mean that many others may love what they're doing. A perfect example is HNC this past season. My personal opinion is that their '94 WSS was a better show than this year's. Whether it was "more demanding" or was performed better or they marched/moved more, didn't factor into it...I just personally found the '94 show to be more entertaining to me. I'm not taking anything away from this year's corps, and from what I've read on DCP this year, a lot of others enjoyed this year more. So you didn't like the chairs? It still took a lot of practice and skill by the performers to use their show props in a way that the design team felt enhanced the program theme, and at the same time were able to play at the level they did. I give every corps their "score" with my hands and feet-applause and a standing "O". I've been on the field-you can tell whether the audience is giving you "polite" applause, or whether they're "throwing babies". One of my favorite shows every year is the alumni spectacular held during the DCA Championship weekend...another is America's Hometown Thanksgiving in Plymouth, MA...because there ARE NO SCORES...the corps win, the audience wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Saying they were boring is an opinion. Yup, and even there opinions differ widely. For those who claim it's some sort of universal truth that Blue Devils were "boring" this past season, well, those folks weren't at the Buffalo show. All I know is that BD finished not to polite golf claps, but a thunderous standing ovation. So even the opinion about what constitutes boring is highly subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBSMYTH Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 ...Devs moved. A lot. ... Some might say: Devs moved a lot - of chairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Some might say: Devs moved a lot - of chairs. True...yet they also move every other corps off the field following retreat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 wong. visual demand can affect the playing...they key is to master the playing while doing the visual demand.this is why I avoid the lot and think way too many people put far too much importance on the lot. great...you played clean standing still. you are now the parking lot cadets champions of the world. yet, more often than not, they #### stuff out on the field when moving. I understand that visual can affect the musical... which is fine. If you sound bad on the move, you are getting deductions for sounding bad, which is musical. How you sound is musical. Whether you are marching 6-5 or 12-5 while you sound however you sound, is not musical, and should not be included in the music scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Just cause you rant with passion does not make it true. Well this is what I've been trying to tell you all along !!! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Remember back when you went to a drum corps show and you watched and listened to be entertained? Yes, this is a competition but there are already people in the press box and on the field charged with the task of judging the corps...no amount of complaining or whining on DCP or to your fellow spectators is going to influence those decisions. One 100% certainty is that not every person in the audience will agree with the judges. Do the judges always get it right? Of course not...neither do MLB umpires, NFL referees, figure skating judges, stockbrokers or meteorologists. Do the corps always get it right? Sadly, some don't seem to "get it" at all. I still go to drum corps shows for one primary reason...because I enjoy drum corps performances. I enjoy some more than others, and as long as I am entertained by more than I don't care for, I will continue to go. Just because I don't enjoy a particular corps doesn't mean that many others may love what they're doing. A perfect example is HNC this past season. My personal opinion is that their '94 WSS was a better show than this year's. Whether it was "more demanding" or was performed better or they marched/moved more, didn't factor into it...I just personally found the '94 show to be more entertaining to me. I'm not taking anything away from this year's corps, and from what I've read on DCP this year, a lot of others enjoyed this year more. So you didn't like the chairs? It still took a lot of practice and skill by the performers to use their show props in a way that the design team felt enhanced the program theme, and at the same time were able to play at the level they did. I give every corps their "score" with my hands and feet-applause and a standing "O". I've been on the field-you can tell whether the audience is giving you "polite" applause, or whether they're "throwing babies". One of my favorite shows every year is the alumni spectacular held during the DCA Championship weekend...another is America's Hometown Thanksgiving in Plymouth, MA...because there ARE NO SCORES...the corps win, the audience wins. Given the fact that most of the people on this site have marched, it's pretty hard to expect that no one will be critical of each corps. You are wasting your breath (or in this case, your bandwidth). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Hmm...if they're pulling their weight, the whole will be there, if not then it wont be, right? How can you tell what the whole is from the field? if you can spot issues on the field, they obviously arent pulling their weight now are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I understand that visual can affect the musical... which is fine. If you sound bad on the move, you are getting deductions for sounding bad, which is musical. How you sound is musical. Whether you are marching 6-5 or 12-5 while you sound however you sound, is not musical, and should not be included in the music scores. how you sound moving 12-5 vs someone who sounds good moving 6 to 5 should count. the performer is being asked to get that same sound quality while doing far more visually. anyone can sound great doing easy drill. now sound great while running your ### off. my issue a lot of times is the visual guys give NO credit to the musical demands of the performer on their sheets. it SHOULD be a two way street, but I have never heard a visual tape in ANY circuit at any level where the musical demands are factored in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscorpsfan Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 It's an interesting read so far and I've figured out some stuff along the way. Whoever came up with the "multiple visual styles presented masterfully" hit the nail on the head and that makes complete sense to me. As far as the people arguing that BD didn't have any demand, I think it just needs to be worded differently. There are two "reasons" I continue to remain skeptical about the difficulty of the show. 1) Part of demand is endurance. Yes, Blue Devils moved quickly, but not for an extended phrase. I know The Cadets take this idea too far on extended phrases, but there's something to be said about challenging your members this way. This may be where many people do not find demand in the Blue Devil's show. There aren't any/many extended phrases. It's a lot easier for the human brain to focus on the task when it is fresh. I do think BD's design team is very smart with pacing the show and it allows for more variety in their program as well. 2) The Blue Devils seem to have mastered how to design an effective show while limiting how readable it is. There are fewer moments in BD's show where everyone is doing the same thing and the form is readable. Much/most of the choreography was individualized so you could not compare individuals to each other. A large chunk of the show was scatter drill. If it wasn't everyone in scatter drill, then the section that was the focus had a defined form and there was scatter drill in the rest of the corps. It was a brilliant way to prevent errors. I'm curious to see the BD drill book. I'm not naive enough to believe that 200 pages of drill makes something difficult, but keeping your show with clear defined forms throughout definitely lays it on the line a lot more than a show filled with many effective scatter drill transitions. I did enjoy how they worked though and loved how BD's show felt like a good stage production. I does seem like purposefully not airing your dirty laundry though. The Blue Devils had plenty of demand in their show, just in a differently way then is traditionally presented. Now while I do believe that running around for extended phrases and giving a judge a form to read the whole time has much more merit, the corps that are doing that need to do it at the same level. It makes it tough to match that type of demand with the recent "intellectual" demand the Blue Devils are now presenting. We'll see if and how other corps will step it up and whatever your opinions are on the subject it will certainly be very interesting to see what the trend will be in the next couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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