audiodb Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 2. In 1997. SCV was scoring over 10 points behind the blue devils at their home show. Many people thought they would not make finals (they were that bad). They tied BD for first at quarters that year and ended up taking third.... soooo I am not sure that the judges should be completely hung out to dry. They got it right in the beginning of the season with BD & SCV and they got it right at Qf's as well as finals. It was 9.5 points, and I don't believe there were "many" people thinking they'd miss finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I am going to steal another posters line here, and make it real simple. To the OP... Which corps didnt get what they deserved? Which corps should have had a chance to win, but finished out of the top 3? Which corps not currently in the top 5 should have beaten the Blue Devils at an upset last year, but didnt? Which corps belonged in finals, but finished in the 20's instead? This is all well and good to talk about, but what you are pointing out is just a fact of the system. Basically, it is BECAUSE it is. Corps really are pretty consistent - from night to night, and generally from year to year. Phantom proved you can win and crash the next year, Crown proved that a new kid can rise to the top....what more can we ask for?? If things were much crazier people would be screaming at the judges for their lack of consistency, and asking why they all have differing opinions. I get it...you want things to be a little more interesting. You dont want to (like I do at most shows) walk away after the last corps, because you already know the scores...BUT, in order to change that, you have to make the corps better, not blame the judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) If you want to get the fruit you have to climb the tree. The Colts climb a fruit tree to get the fruit. The Blue Devils own a fruit company. Edited December 9, 2009 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesjones0611 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It takes solid, consistent growth both off AND ON the performance field. The only drum corps to truly climb the tree in the past 20 years or so is Crown. Bluecoats were close in 2006, but staff changes/design changes threw them off course. Lots of people think Crown is great now, but back in 2003, #### that drum corps was bad. They sucked it up for quite a few years before reaching the level they're at right now, and they're STILL getting better. It takes that right combination of staff, admin, and member retention in order to reach those goals. So to answer your question, I'll just repeat what Piper said. To eat the fruit, you must first climb the tree. Oh, and groups have to pay their dues too. They have to prove that they are consistently good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I really want to agree with what you're saying, but can you really argue that the Colts are anywhere near as good as the Blue Devils? There's never really been a season where I completely disagree with the judges. Maybe by one or two places, but to argue that a corps who didn't make finals could have conceivably won is a different story. If you grab any two random corps from any year, 90 percent of the time I'd agree that corps A was definitely better than corps B. HOWEVER, an entire season where June shows are performed in black pants and white shirts would be interesting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I really want to agree with what you're saying, but can you really argue that the Colts are anywhere near as good as the Blue Devils? There's never really been a season where I completely disagree with the judges. Maybe by one or two places, but to argue that a corps who didn't make finals could have conceivably won is a different story. If you grab any two random corps from any year, 90 percent of the time I'd agree that corps A was definitely better than corps B.HOWEVER, an entire season where June shows are performed in black pants and white shirts would be interesting.... It wouldn't change a darn thing. Judges know who is who from the 1000s of other factors. Colts have never played as well together as BD. Colts have never played as well in tune as BD. Colts have never marched as well as BD. To really find out what's up, we'd have to pick a year and make every corps march the same show, with the same instrumentation, same book,same guard work,etc. And we'd have to randomly select the membership. Leave the staffs in place, and see what happens. (This would be for the people who think the staff makes the difference, but membership talent doesn't) OR...leave the membership be (assumes more talent in top 6 vs rest), and move the staffs around. That would be fun too. (This would be for the people who think staffs don't matter, but membership talent does.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 talent level and numbers certainly have something to do with how you design a show... Does it make sense to give a show to a corps they have 0 chance of achieving? The corps with the most success get the cream of the crop of talented members. Donny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZFan Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It wouldn't change a darn thing. Judges know who is who from the 1000s of other factors. Colts have never played as well together as BD. Colts have never played as well in tune as BD. Colts have never marched as well as BD. To really find out what's up, we'd have to pick a year and make every corps march the same show, with the same instrumentation, same book,same guard work,etc. And we'd have to randomly select the membership. Leave the staffs in place, and see what happens. (This would be for the people who think the staff makes the difference, but membership talent doesn't) OR...leave the membership be (assumes more talent in top 6 vs rest), and move the staffs around. That would be fun too. (This would be for the people who think staffs don't matter, but membership talent does.) No we wouldn't. We'd just need to make sure that they all have hats on ( like generic black shakos or perhaps DCI 201X baseball hats) and that none of the judges have gone to the individual corps practices or know off the top of their heads what the show titles/musical selections are for the corps. The cavies are always going to recruit stronger marchers then the surf. Crown is always going to attract stronger brass players than the colts. So the top corps really could be stronger. Its knowing more in each tier which is stronger and which is severely under/overrated. It would actually be a rather cool event, like people go to the unveiling themes show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 No we wouldn't. We'd just need to make sure that they all have hats on ( like generic black shakos or perhaps DCI 201X baseball hats) and that none of the judges have gone to the individual corps practices or know off the top of their heads what the show titles/musical selections are for the corps.The cavies are always going to recruit stronger marchers then the surf. Crown is always going to attract stronger brass players than the colts. So the top corps really could be stronger. Its knowing more in each tier which is stronger and which is severely under/overrated. It would actually be a rather cool event, like people go to the unveiling themes show. Are you serious? I could probably identify every hornline by listening to them play one note, lol. I'm sure the drum-geeks in here would say the same thing about percussion. You've never been to a bar with a judge before, I take it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paralda Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Are you serious? I could probably identify every hornline by listening to them play one note, lol. I'm sure the drum-geeks in here would say the same thing about percussion. You've never been to a bar with a judge before, I take it... Also, everyone would be able to tell the Cavaliers are the Cavaliers by the way they march, same with Cadets, Blue Knights, etc. I just don't think it's possible to remove any and all "slotting bias" realistically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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