A letter to Open Class Corps folks

[CitBos]

wturner- I couldn't agree with you any more as an OC performer and someone who has obviously been impacted by why this topic started.

The DCI summer tour is pretty much what all those camps before spring training, the hell we go during spring training, and all of the other work we all do is for. What's the point of having a corps that only does parades and local shows? Member wouldn't come in and the corps wouldn't have membership. A lot of member of OC corps are looking for their start in DCI, and no one wants to start doing three shows. No one, not me, not anyone in OC. I surely would not have traveled to Columbus, Ohio every month just for three shows. Tour is DCI, members live for it. What if BD did just local shows and parades? Sure it's not happening anytime soon and their WC and they have money, but the fact is the same. Any corps who wants to do just local shows won't get the people to fill their spots

Also, everyone seems not to care about OC going inactive. I can tell you, everyone one of the 70 some people who marched with Capital Regiment are almost heartbroken over this. We were all looking forward to marching again so let's not forget what it does to the members. The most important part of DCI...

Let me just say that I know where your coming from. I aged-out of Citations last summer, and I've marched there for 8 seasons. And to hear that they'll be inactive for the 2010 season, I was heartbroken as well. The corps was also inactive for the '00-'01 seasons, and I joined in '02 when they came back out. That year, we were second to last, which was something like 27th place. (Just to think that there were almost 30 corps in Div. 3, and in eight short years there's less than 20 in all of Open Class...) Then in '09, we came in third. Yes, it is true we had alot of members and staff from Spartans, and some staff from ECJ, and with them we did make finals for two straight years, won best guard for two straight years, and got the corps' first Top 3 medal in it's history. But even without them (the staff from Spartans & ECJ, and members from Spartans), Citations were getting better every year, and probably would have made finals on our own in another year or two. Now, I can't say this for every person who joins a drum corps, but the main reason I joined a drum corps is not to compete in finals, not to get a Top 3 medal (which I am VERY happy about non-the-less), or to compete (even though I did like the competetion). The reason I joined was for the experience, the traceling we did, and the friends that I've made that I would not have made other wise. That's probably the same reason why the members of Gold, or any other drum corps that doesn't go to finals, or even regualy compete, join the corps.

[Blake13]

Let me just say that I know where your coming from. I aged-out of Citations last summer, and I've marched there for 8 seasons. And to hear that they'll be inactive for the 2010 season, I was heartbroken as well. The corps was also inactive for the '00-'01 seasons, and I joined in '02 when they came back out. That year, we were second to last, which was something like 27th place. (Just to think that there were almost 30 corps in Div. 3, and in eight short years there's less than 20 in all of Open Class...) Then in '09, we came in third. Yes, it is true we had alot of members and staff from Spartans, and some staff from ECJ, and with them we did make finals for two straight years, won best guard for two straight years, and got the corps' first Top 3 medal in it's history. But even without them (the staff from Spartans & ECJ, and members from Spartans), Citations were getting better every year, and probably would have made finals on our own in another year or two. Now, I can't say this for every person who joins a drum corps, but the main reason I joined a drum corps is not to compete in finals, not to get a Top 3 medal (which I am VERY happy about non-the-less), or to compete (even though I did like the competetion). The reason I joined was for the experience, the traceling we did, and the friends that I've made that I would not have made other wise. That's probably the same reason why the members of Gold, or any other drum corps that doesn't go to finals, or even regualy compete, join the corps.

Citations was really good last year. And it's a shame to see them inactive again. I'm glad you get in all the years you had with them before they went out again. It really is dissapointing when there's only a handful of people on here who marched OC and understand where we're coming from. I'm sure if almost everyone was trying to blast Citations about why they went inactive you'd be pretty mad yourself. All I hope is both Citations and Capital Regiment can come back into competition soon. We were both really good corps with members that loved performing, loved the staff, loved each other, and loved the experiences we gained from the summer.

[Jeff Ream]

To DC4567 - I would submit (and again, I'm talking with no experience in corps administration or anything like that - just a fan) that the whole point of OC isn't to be a mini-WC corps. The current touring model just isn't working. You're saying "well look at the experience the members are getting" - I'm saying "look how few members are getting *any* kind of experience now."

Mike

agreed, especially since where they send them, most people who could see them aren't.

I prefer seeing them at more WC shows, but we all know the WC hosts don't entirely want to pay extra to have them

[CitBos]

Citations was really good last year. And it's a shame to see them inactive again. I'm glad you get in all the years you had with them before they went out again. It really is dissapointing when there's only a handful of people on here who marched OC and understand where we're coming from. I'm sure if almost everyone was trying to blast Citations about why they went inactive you'd be pretty mad yourself. All I hope is both Citations and Capital Regiment can come back into competition soon. We were both really good corps with members that loved performing, loved the staff, loved each other, and loved the experiences we gained from the summer.

Yes, it is a shame to see them go. It's also a shame to see people, like you basically said, blast Cap Reg. Like I said recently in another post, I hope it's early enough so that everyone who was going to do Cap Reg for 2010, either march or teach, can find somewhere else to go fro the season. And, I think, that just as long as both corps have enough people who support the corps and want to see them on the field again, I'm sure both will be back out, hopefully for 2011.

[IntheMood]

If the point of OC isn't to be a mini-WC corps for people who aren't ready for WC for whatever reason or don't have as much experience on their instruments but still want to do corps, then what is the point of it? The solutions Tom are proposing just do not sound to me like they would be popular with the recruitment base (high school band students).

To me and me only, and with no disrespect, but your post is very short sited. and to some degree disrespectful to the OC Div.

Dean

[drumcorpsfan4567]

To me and me only, and with no disrespect, but your post is very short sited. and to some degree disrespectful to the OC Div.

Dean

I'm sorry if you took my statement to mean that nobody good does OC or that the point of it was only to be a feeder for WC because that's not what I meant at all; I can see how you would see that from what I wrote, but that was not the point I was trying to make (if that is why you find my post short-sighted and disrespectful). I marched OC and I would say that many of the members there were easily good enough to do WC but they loved the corps so much that they wanted to stay with them and did.

The point I'm trying to make, having done OC, is that a big reason people love OC is because of the tour and going to championships. A large group of members would not have marched my corps if we didn't go to championships, and frankly I'm not sure I would have either. Even the very talented members who stayed with the corps because they loved it still loved getting to see the WC corps, and always had very strong opinions on things. It was all a part of the experience.

I think it would be much easier to recruit for a new corps if they didn't intend to go to championships every year than it would be for an established corps to suddenly stop going to championships.

Edited December 23, 2009 by drumcorpsfan4567

[CasualFan]

This current model of touring with the big-boys and seeing nothing financially in return is not fiscally sound. And, unfortunately, life-experiences don't pay bills. I've tried to cash a few of those at a bank before. Where do they get the money to survive, dues alone? From a couple corps I've had the chance to get to know, dues only make up a fraction of the total revenue needed to survive on tour. Souvies even less.

For OC corps that don't operate bingo, I would say that tour and camp fees make up a majority (75-90%) of their revenue.

SCVC is a terrible example of a corps with strong membership while not attending champsionships. Kids will march there because they're multiple-time Div II/Open Champs, because they can provide a foot in the door with SCV, and because they'll likely go to championships in 2011. When you combine those three reasons it provides plenty incentive to march a corps not attending championships, and most corps cannot provide those incentives.

A better example would be Gold. They haven't come out east ever(??), but they appear to have a solid membership base every year and put up competitive scores to boot. I would be very interested to know how they continue to attract members while not going to Indy. More power to them!

Uh...what? I wasn't arguing with you. QFT = Quoted For Truth. I also backed up your points quite a bit. I simply cited Gold as a rare example of a corps with decent member retention and quality instruction that does not attend finals. For the record, I marched corps, I teach band and I teach corps, I know how competitive members are first hand. Also, I would probably march Gold, because they have a good thing going and I would like to be part of building that up. I'm really looking forward to the day when they do make it to Indy, because I'm guessing they'll be a top 6 OC competitor.

Actually, Gold is not a good example either. Gold is part of the Centinela Valley High School District summer music program and is probably only made up of students in that district. Gold is not listed as a 501©(3) organization so I suspect it is underwritten by the school district.

[IntheMood]

I'm sorry if you took my statement to mean that nobody good does OC or that the point of it was only to be a feeder for WC because that's not what I meant at all; I can see how you would see that from what I wrote, but that was not the point I was trying to make (if that is why you find my post short-sighted and disrespectful). I marched OC and I would say that many of the members there were easily good enough to do WC but they loved the corps so much that they wanted to stay with them and did.

The point I'm trying to make, having done OC, is that a big reason people love OC is because of the tour and going to championships. A large group of members would not have marched my corps if we didn't go to championships, and frankly I'm not sure I would have either. Even the very talented members who stayed with the corps because they loved it still loved getting to see the WC corps, and always had very strong opinions on things. It was all a part of the experience.

I think it would be much easier to recruit for a new corps if they didn't intend to go to championships every year than it would be for an established corps to suddenly stop going to championships.

Thank You for your reply. You have explained your position a lot better for me. Again Thank You.

I to marched Class A/Open Class back in the day. I guess this is where our generation does not see eye to eye. I marched the Glassmen because they were local to me not because of the weekend tour or going to DCI. The First Class A/OC DCI Finals was 1975. So to me DCI was no better then the US Open Show. And even then there were a lot of Class A/OC Corps that did not go to DCI Finals.

What I meant by short sited: Is that to many people only talk about the Band kids when it comes to joining a Drum Corps. I do not have the numbers, but I will bet my last dollar that there are more kids NOT in band then are in band. I just think it is sad that this group of kids are not being heavily recruited as much as the band kids. Again, I do not have the numbers but I will bet my last dollar that back in the day there were more kids that had NO band experience that marched then had band experience.

Dean

[Kamarag]

I will bet my last dollar that back in the day there were more kids that had NO band experience that marched then had band experience.

Dean

You may be right, but this is absolutely not the case today. The reason drum corps don't actively recruit non-band kids is because it's simply not at all worth the effort. Non-band kids are interested in other things. To them, drum corps IS band (yes, we know it is too, even if some claim otherwise). Drum corps are far better suited recruiting from the vast pool of band students. Are there exceptions? Sure, but they are very few and very far between.

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

great questions, both.

First, the biggest problem Open Class corps face is monetary resources. In this, they are no different than any drum corps. All drum corps need money. In fact, drum corps eat money. Give a drum corps more money and they will need more money. It's just part of the deal.

And yes, other than offer advice...like skip starting a new bingo game at this stage. I do donate money to Open Class corps and to members outwright.

Now, let's talk ideas. Why would a corps ever go inactive? There are hundreds of local performing opportunities, yet directors and staff feel this is a waste of time. Let me ask you. If you had a local parade to perform where 5000 people were going to see you...reminder...local 5000, then why is this a waste of time. I find the current Open Class schedule with 8-9 shows and a smattering a fans who decide to show up for OC finals kind of a waste...especially because...there's no payday involved.

Open Class corps should perform. 90% of their performances should be local. DCI should be an afterthought. If you can afford it and it's worthwhile for the organization then do it, otherwise...and take note from SCVC...skip it and stay home. Trust me, SCVC is not lacking for members this summer.

Think local, raise money from performing. Skip DCI if it's not in the cards. In short, survive. By the way, I have never bought into the old...well, if we don't tour, we won't have kids. There will always be kids...maybe not as talented...maybe not the kids who want to go on tour in DCI, but, there will be kids. Staff just has to....wait for it...teach. Yes, not just 10 minutes of music, but how to play and how to march and how to perform at a high level.

So, there. My 5 minute thesis on what OC corps can do to survive...and note it does not depend on DCI for survival. Lower tier WC corps have a hard enough time doing this and they get paid for performances.

What's next?

Tom, brilliant post. I couldn't agree with you more. I think that gradually over time some people created this idea that drum corps is all about DCI World Class or whatever they were calling it at the time, keeping up with DCI national touring models, and DCI equipment levels. But really, that model only works (?) for the top corps.

I agree 100% with the local emphasis for Open corps.

Every summer at the Asbury Park 4th of July parade, I see the NY Lancers, a small drum and bugle corps many folks believe is extinct. In W. PA., my old corps continues as a local parade corps for youngsters. So non-aligned corps still exist. There are other performance venues out there and with some better ties, perhaps small local shows can be restarted.

I also think the marching major leagues format intimidates kids. At work, I heard a young lady hacking about with marching sticks. She could play. I asked her about joining a drum corps and she responded "OH, I'd like to, but I'm not a music major!!!!" I then tried to explain DCA and the Raiders to her, but we were both headed toward class. But the moral is that a lot of folks are intimidated out of participation in DCI because of the propaganda campaign and performance styles/standards. The World Class model is so pushed that that the Open corps are assumed by some kids to be the same deal.

Finally, of all my drum corps gigs during my marching career which was about seven years, my favorite, annual performance-the one that gave me chills, was playing for the Butler PA Veterans hospital. Local performance, we didn't get paid, but you can find valuable performance opportunities besides shows.

Sorry this is a little disjointed.... Just some thoughts....

Edited December 23, 2009 by pearlsnaredrummer77