What is missing from Drum Corps today

[Newseditor44]

Do you uys realize that this has been probably the most positive thread this forum has seen in years?

Crap, I just jinxed it. My bad.

LOL

Nicely done folks!

[Jeff Ream]

Look back at the posts in this thread. You will find your answer there.

My point of view comes from being a FMM and a long-time drum corps fan. I saw my first show in 1965 and I have missed DCI Finals in only 2 years since it's inception. 1972 and 1981. You have probably seen me at more competitions over the years than some corps!

Trust me when I say this: I have a pretty good idea what the majority of long-time drum corps fans want! After all, I am one!

The judges are human. Human beings have OPINIONS. The judging system has gone from being a mix of OBJECTIVE and SUBJECTIVE scores to ALL SUBJECTIVE. The scores the judges give are their PERSONAL OPINIONS. They are not the opinions of the MAJORITY of the fans in the stands.

The question is: in 2010 will the judges personal opinion accurately reflect the GENERAL EFFECT the corps performance had on the AUDIENCE?

The BOTTOM LINE is: Will DCI take heed to what the drum corps public has been saying for decades, or will they continue to listen to a few people's personal opinions and watch the crowds become smaller and smaller as people get FED UP with NOT being sufficiently entertained by the corps?

Many drum corps fans have gotten FED UP with the direction DCI has gone in. Many drum corps fans are NOT returning to the stadiums. They are spending their $$ on other things. They refuse to spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars during a summer to sit bored in the stands!

Personally, I have spent in excess of $10,000 on transportation, lodging, tickets, and drum corps related items EACH AND EVERY summer since 1982! There are many, many people who have spent even more, each and every year! I am in touch with some of them and I can tell you that they are FED UP! They REFUSE to continue to spend $$ on an activity that icontinues to ignore their entertainment needs. Why should they spend thosands of dollars each summer on an activity that does not consider them important enough to listen to?

Why?

Ron Gunn

actually, it answered for you by Bawker and myself.

DCI IS the corps.

DCI ( aka the corps) tells the judges what to judge.

the judges follow orders..those that don't don't work anymore.

[Jeff Ream]

.

DCI should be DCI, and WGI should be WGI. When they started blending together on the field(especially from a guards and percussion perspective) what comes out has the characteristics of a tied dyed t-shirt.

added to back up what I have been saying for a while now

[Jeff Ream]

Is G to Bb really a major change??? Not surprised this finally made the thread, hahaha... but I do not think it is a really big change. Just horns in a different key.. with a slightly different sound. Very common in the music world. I'm not hear to argue that though. This doesn't have to do with the entertainment value.

We don't need G bugles to have entertaining shows, we don't need to unplug everything to have entertaining shows (I will never be pro synth in drum corps). The problem lies solely in show design. If you gave one of today's corps an early 90's show, I'm pretty sure they could kick ### with it, and possibly make it more entertaining with the excellence shows are performed with today. Today's marching members are not given a book that they can really perform and connect to the crowd with. Of course this doesn't apply to all corps all the time. Crown and Phantom (minus 09(IMO)) have pretty much figured it out this decade. And then there is a small handful who get it every other year or so. The change has to come in design... and possibly judging.

no you dont have to have a certain key to have an entertaining show.

but for long time drum corps fans, G was our identity, what made us different...and now, too often, thanks to rules changes and venue choices, you need more bodies and a domed stadium to get the power G gave you.

Really, I never got that worked up over the key...but i totally understand why people have and still do

[Jeff Ream]

. . .why not? All of that stuff is legal now, and it falls under what DCI chooses to define as "drum corps".

Perhaps those examples are a bit extreme, but in its own way . . .weren't the other shows that moved that activity forward? Didn't SCV 1980 revolutionize drill, still playing within the confines given? Star in 1993 with body movement and bucking the trend of "big hit here" arranging? Cadets 1983 with their own whiplash drill moves in an era of "line, stop here, make another line'?

We've decided that these new colors and instruments are something the activity needed. We aren't going to go back and do without them if those who voted them in have anything to do with it.

Why not really push the boundaries and see what sticks instead of half-assing it?

Step up, I say. Show us why you're the artistic and creative minds we've charged with pushing the activity into the next generation.

Or, just play some old drum corps standbys and add some synth sounds behind it.

Either one works, but only one can change the direction of the activity.

ya know...great point. All of the truly classic shows played within the rules that existed, they didnt have rules changed to make them happen.

and..funny despite the proclomations made with many recent rules proposals about creativity...shows seem more cookie cutter than ever...despite all these wonderful new expensive toys that were made legal.

[Jeff Ream]

Yes, it's Friday. lol.

How would we compensate for home crowd bias, though?

I think any judge with a brain knows Cadets will get massive cheers in Allentown, BD/SCV in NorCal, Phantom in Rockford etc

[Jeff Ream]

Let's stir the pot a bit. Here is an idea... lets completely do away with judges all together and leave it to the fans. The fans pick the winners.

Being totally serious here. No guidelines, no criteria to meet, just fan appeal and applause.

In fact, lets take it a step further, lets get rid of the competitive aspect out of drum corps all together. No more competition at all.

to truly get it right, you need a totally neutral site

[Jeff Ream]

You lost me on " older DCI fans look at the past through rose colored glasses ". I thought that comment was an ignorant overgeneralization on DCI fans where you really seem intolerant to others positions, so my thought was" why should I care for HIS opinion" ?, and so I read no further than that absurd comment. You seem to care only about your own position and nobody elses, so why should we care what you think re. Mr. Hopkins noicing that the shows of today do not seem to him to elicit satisfactory responses from audiences as one would hope.

thank you. i have been following DCI since age 6. Do I love many old shows? yes. Do I love many more recent shows...some, maybe not as much.

to me especially the real challenge is after about 14th place....the shows at the bottom really do little to reach me, unlike the past, even as recently as 1999...i loved many of the shows 13-21 in the past.

[DWEST]

no you dont have to have a certain key to have an entertaining show.

but for long time drum corps fans, G was our identity, what made us different...and now, too often, thanks to rules changes and venue choices, you need more bodies and a domed stadium to get the power G gave you.

Really, I never got that worked up over the key...but i totally understand why people have and still do

Today's shows are entertaining.

But I miss the ultra WOW factor. The power of a G horn line, crushing your body into your seat.

The years 1980-1999 were fantastic for this sound.

The Bb lines of today sound great, but it sounds like a loud organ. It's good, but for me, No WOW factor.

IMHO, the Bb horn (volume/sound) dissipates before it even reaches the stands.

[INSIDETHEFORTY]

explain Phantom in 08

My explanation for Phantom in '08:

I AM SPARTICUS!

Did you see me standing up in the crowd, yelling that in time with the corps? Phantom got to me, and in this instance, I think they got to the judges too! Once in a blue moon, the judges and I agree.

However, some judges don't seem to have a clue.

Example:

2009 DCI Championships 1/4 finals...... Cadets percussion score......19.30...3rd place

2009 DCI Championships 1/2 finals.......Cadets percussion score.......19.50...3rd place

2009 DCI Championships Finals............Cadets percussion score.......18.50.....7th place

Seems to me that, in the Cadets case, the Finals percussion judge was "clueless", or wanted to stick it to the Cadets! I don't know the story behind this score, but it made a big difference in the Cadets' placing at Finals.

If you look at the percussion scores and placements of the Cadets at major shows prior to Indy, you will se that their Finals percussion score and placement was not deserved.

Had the Cadets been 3rd in percussion with a 19.50, their total score would have been a full point higher at Finals, 98.20, placing them 2nd instead of 3rd.

I am not a "Cadet fan". Had that sort of thing happened to BD, SCV, Phantom, Boston, Glassmen, or any other corps, my reaction would be the same, utter disgust! I am not a "Cadet fan". Howver, it is obvious that the Cadets were not given the percussion score they deserved!

If I have seem to have a problem with judges, this is part of the reason why. They are not all impatial and they do make mistakes, errors, blunders and the like. Some judges seek to boost the scores of thier favorite corps, while some try to tear down the scores of corps they have issues with.

What can I say? Judges are human.

Ron Gunn

Edited January 9, 2010 by INSIDETHEFORTY