What is missing from Drum Corps today

[lindap]

Do you uys realize that this has been probably the most positive thread this forum has seen in years?

Crap, I just jinxed it. My bad.

LOL

Nicely done folks!

na, you're good

[perc2100]

My explanation for Phantom in '08:

I AM SPARTICUS!

Did you see me standing up in the crowd, yelling that in time with the corps? Phantom got to me, and in this instance, I think they got to the judges too! Once in a blue moon, the judges and I agree.

However, some judges don't seem to have a clue.

Example:

2009 DCI Championships 1/4 finals...... Cadets percussion score......19.30...3rd place

2009 DCI Championships 1/2 finals.......Cadets percussion score.......19.50...3rd place

2009 DCI Championships Finals............Cadets percussion score.......18.50.....7th place

Seems to me that, in the Cadets case, the Finals percussion judge was "clueless", or wanted to stick it to the Cadets! I don't know the story behind this score, but it made a big difference in the Cadets' placing at Finals.

If you look at the percussion scores and placements of the Cadets at major shows prior to Indy, you will se that their Finals percussion score and placement was not deserved.

Had the Cadets been 3rd in percussion with a 19.50, their total score would have been a full point higher at Finals, 98.20, placing them 2nd instead of 3rd.

I am not a "Cadet fan". Had that sort of thing happened to BD, SCV, Phantom, Boston, Glassmen, or any other corps, my reaction would be the same, utter disgust! I am not a "Cadet fan". Howver (sic), it is obvious that the Cadets were not giving the percussion score they deserved!.

Ron Gunn

Ha! Obvious, meaning you were out on the field shadowing the judges?!

It's been stated MANY times around here that a snare drummer fell at finals, and possibly caused a lot of other mental errors playing wise from the battery.

Now, I haven't heard a 2009 Finals percussion judge tape for Cadets, so I can't say for sure. But when you have a fall, and we're dealing with kids and not professional musicians, it's not out of the realm of possibility that perhaps the fall took the battery to a downward spiral that led to many mental errors which led to a poor performance.

Is it possible that a judge "had it out" for Cadets and wanted to ensure that they didn't pass Crown? Yes. Is it likely? A resounding no.

[Rochester New York]

Today's shows are entertaining.

But I miss the ultra WOW factor. The power of a G horn line, crushing your body into your seat.

The years 1980-1999 were fantastic for this sound.

The Bb lines of today sound great, but it sounds like a loud organ. It's good, but for me, No WOW factor.

IMHO, the Bb horn (volume/sound) dissipates before it even reaches the stands.

Yes, yes, a thousand times YES. Thank you for articulating this so well. Why do so few people seem to get it? Is it that so few people on here truly remember the sound of the G horns?

Quick litmus test: For people who were at 2000 Finals (the last time a champion corps played on G horns): Recall, if you can, the Cavaliers' opening statement. Have you heard SINCE THEN power chords that felt like they were literally grabbing your heart and making your hair stand on end???

[INSIDETHEFORTY]

Ha! Obvious, meaning you were out on the field shadowing the judges?!

It's been stated MANY times around here that a snare drummer fell at finals, and possibly caused a lot of other mental errors playing wise from the battery.

Now, I haven't heard a 2009 Finals percussion judge tape for Cadets, so I can't say for sure. But when you have a fall, and we're dealing with kids and not professional musicians, it's not out of the realm of possibility that perhaps the fall took the battery to a downward spiral that led to many mental errors which led to a poor performance.

Is it possible that a judge "had it out" for Cadets and wanted to ensure that they didn't pass Crown? Yes. Is it likely? A resounding no.

What is even more obvious is that I did not see the snare drummer fall at Finals, not did I read any of the posts about it or the Cadets' drum score. I will look for them.

I just read the Finals Recap on DCI.org/news. Wow!

With egg on face,

Ron Gunn

Edited January 9, 2010 by INSIDETHEFORTY

[kickhaltsforlife]

Today's shows are entertaining.

But I miss the ultra WOW factor. The power of a G horn line, crushing your body into your seat.

The years 1980-1999 were fantastic for this sound.

The Bb lines of today sound great, but it sounds like a loud organ. It's good, but for me, No WOW factor.

IMHO, the Bb horn (volume/sound) dissipates before it even reaches the stands.

THis is what I love about the Bb horns... it is the sound I listen for in any brass ensemble. I can also see that is where many "old timers" get upset. Because the G sound was distinct and different from any else. But right now we are in a stage with Bb horns where they need to go through a redesign... there are ways to make these horns project better... I believe money is getting in the way there.

Right now the theme in DCI is maintaining the status quo. This theme needs to be changed.

[kickhaltsforlife]

And also, there are some Bb lines that have put me in my seat... but there is where my argument is often lost... the most experience with Gs I have is through my sound system. I have heard lines live... but they were nothing like the lines of the past, so I can't really make a comparison. But there is still much potential with Bb lines. How long did it take to finally get a good sounding line on G horns... there is plenty of room for improvement on these Bb horns still.

[Wadep66]

Well after reading the positive comments on something Hop posted I had to turn on the Weather Channel to see if Hell had frozen over. Having said that, It sure looked like a lot of the comments on here about how formulaic, unmelodic, predictable, and over-intellectual shows have gotten. The bottom line to me is this:

DCI/Drum Corps has become so inwardly focused that the crowd has been left as an afterthought.

Evidence is all over the place including, but not limited to the Oil Can.

Hop said it himself: We get what we reward. So to fix it, the adjudication has to change dramatically.

Phantom Regiment in 08 proved you can both win the crowd and the title. Crown's Triple Crown show is the most recent example to me of great programming that is virtually impossible not to like. So there are examples.

Get back to rewarding musicality over visual, and get the effect to consider the crowd reaction more. Oversimplified I know, but it's a start.

[luvs me sum mello!]

You lost me on " older DCI fans look at the past through rose colored glasses ". I thought that comment was an ignorant overgeneralization on DCI fans where you really seem intolerant to others positions, so my thought was" why should I care for HIS opinion" ?, and so I read no further than that absurd comment. You seem to care only about your own position and nobody elses, so why should we care what you think re. Mr. Hopkins noicing that the shows of today do not seem to him to elicit satisfactory responses from audiences as one would hope.

You obviously did not understand my post. I'll chalk that up to your non-desire to read the whole thing.

My post came in 2 parts: A response to the Blog/OP and a separate response to what the conversation had BECOME. I mean, how often do DCP topics really stay about the OP?

And I'm not the one generalizing, here. Did I say ALL older fans? No, I didn't. But many many many of the most outspoken DCPers who say that old school drum corps is awesome and new drum corps is boring and blah blah blah....those are the ones I refer to. I also talked about how my students, kids in high school, don't really dig a great majority of classic DCI. I love drum corps from the past. Period. Perhaps if you didn't get so butt hurt and read the whole thing. Probably good for your blood pressure, too. ;)

[luvs me sum mello!]

Ok, so here's a question for many in this discussion:

Of all the posters who think corps staff members don't care about the fans, how many of you have been a part of a world class design meeting and designed a show?

Don't brush it off. It's a legitimate question.

[garfield]

Ok, so here's a question for many in this discussion:

Of all the posters who think corps staff members don't care about the fans, how many of you have been a part of a world class design meeting and designed a show?

Don't brush it off. It's a legitimate question.

This is the old, tired argument of "...if you've not lived in poverty you can't relate". Hogwash. If I have to sit in on a design meeting to be able to understand the show's point, it defacto confirms the show is ineffective in reaching the larger audience. Reminds me of the libretto (was that Star?) - if you have to describe the show in print then your design is not written to attract the average (young or old) fan. Fail.

I would rather like to know which, or how many, JUDGES have sat in on a design meeting. I read the theories here that judges are taught by staff what to judge and how. I shouldn't have to be in the room to remind the staff who the audience is, but the judges seem to get the right to do so.

It's not a legitimate question, IMHO.