What is missing from Drum Corps today

[jetman1287]

Thank you! Someone gets it. It's not about the talk, it's about the actions. ANYONE can pander to the older DCI fans who are, like it or not, looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. The truth of the matter is that until I see a 180 in how things are being done at YEA then I'm not going to praise a wordy blog. That's all. Maybe he has had a change of heart. Or maybe the past few years have hurt business. Or maybe it's all smoke up ***es. No matter the reservations I may have I'll just have to wait and see.

In regards to what this conversation has evolved into:

Drum corps is still good. You may think the shows of yesteryear were awesome, but to be quite honest, they don't hold my student's attention. Period. Now don't get me wrong! I can throw on BD 92, SCV 89, some VK or Star and that's fine. But these kids are simply unimpressed with the great majority of shows where all the corps does is play tune, stop, play tune, stop....

Pop in a DVD of 06-09 and they want to watch the entire top 12, not just a single corps from this year and that. They want something to aspire too and a lot of old school corps does not do that for them. Not to be too cliche, but they're the most important demographic. Period. They may not have deep pockets, but they pay to go see a show, they audition, and they are the corps members we will pay to support and watch.

But what I really don't understand is how I see posts this time of year about how drum corps is boring or "too smart." Really? I don't say much on these boards, but I read a ton. And funny enough some of the same posters who were in love with a good handful of the shows from the past few years are the same crying foul of the "design monster." Sit back, pay attention and you'll get a chuckle out of it too. ;)

So ya, It's the dead center of the off season, but for the love of Jeebus drum corps is awesome to watch. Period. It was awesome then, it's awesome now, and It will always be awesome.

Yes, a lot of the older stuff is boring. I prefer the modern Bb horns and the range displayed by the corps today. But there is a startling lack of melodies throughout these shows. Nothing to move forward with. Although - you are right in that a lot of people enjoy what's going on these days.

The original post is more complaining that all the corps are the same and have too visual a focus, not that they should necessarily go back to the 1970s. I think it's being misinterpreted as "70s corps are better than today" by some posters that can't get off their retro kick :) I just want to see some variety out there!

Edited January 9, 2010 by jetman1287

[DWEST]

Thank you! Someone gets it. It's not about the talk, it's about the actions. ANYONE can pander to the older DCI fans who are, like it or not, looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. The truth of the matter is that until I see a 180 in how things are being done at YEA then I'm not going to praise a wordy blog. That's all. Maybe he has had a change of heart. Or maybe the past few years have hurt business. Or maybe it's all smoke up ***es. No matter the reservations I may have I'll just have to wait and see.

In regards to what this conversation has evolved into:

Drum corps is still good. You may think the shows of yesteryear were awesome, but to be quite honest, they don't hold my student's attention. Period. Now don't get me wrong! I can throw on BD 92, SCV 89, some VK or Star and that's fine. But these kids are simply unimpressed with the great majority of shows where all the corps does is play tune, stop, play tune, stop....

Pop in a DVD of 06-09 and they want to watch the entire top 12, not just a single corps from this year and that. They want something to aspire too and a lot of old school corps does not do that for them. Not to be too cliche, but they're the most important demographic. Period. They may not have deep pockets, but they pay to go see a show, they audition, and they are the corps members we will pay to support and watch.

But what I really don't understand is how I see posts this time of year about how drum corps is boring or "too smart." Really? I don't say much on these boards, but I read a ton. And funny enough some of the same posters who were in love with a good handful of the shows from the past few years are the same crying foul of the "design monster." Sit back, pay attention and you'll get a chuckle out of it too. ;)

So ya, It's the dead center of the off season, but for the love of Jeebus drum corps is awesome to watch. Period. It was awesome then, it's awesome now, and It will always be awesome.

I remember when the shows were better live than they were on vcr/dvd. I guess things change with time.

[BRASSO]

Yes, a lot of the older stuff is boring. I prefer the modern Bb horns and the range displayed by the corps today. But there is a startling lack of melodies throughout these shows. Nothing to move forward with. Although - you are right in that a lot of people enjoy what's going on these days.

The original post is more complaining that all the corps are the same and have too visual a focus, not that they should necessarily go back to the 1970s. I think it's being misinterpreted as "70s corps are better than today" by some posters that can't get off their retro kick :) I just want to see some variety out there!

Exactly. Perhaps it's a reading comprehension difficulty at work here. Hops was not pitting one generation of Drum Corps against another, nor was he calling for a return to 70 style shows. He never said that, nor implied that. Neither did the OP in their follow up commentary to Hops blog comments. I hope this poster is not employed in a classroom with this inability to extract the proper thoughts from a very readable and understandable post from Mr. Hopkins. That would really be a sad commentary if he or she was.

Edited January 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

I remember when the shows were better live than they were on vcr/dvd. I guess things change with time.

We've probably all heard the phrase " the tape ( DVD ) was nowhere near as good as seeing and hearing the Corps performance live ".

Some things NEVER change. This statement was true in 2009.

And it was true in 1979.

Anyone watching a tape of a Corps from 1979 ( or 2009 ) knows that it's not the same as seeing and hearing it performed live. Not even close. This is something we ALL can agree on too.

Edited January 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[Newseditor44]

Yes, a lot of the older stuff is boring. I prefer the modern Bb horns and the range displayed by the corps today. But there is a startling lack of melodies throughout these shows. Nothing to move forward with. Although - you are right in that a lot of people enjoy what's going on these days.

The original post is more complaining that all the corps are the same and have too visual a focus, not that they should necessarily go back to the 1970s. I think it's being misinterpreted as "70s corps are better than today" by some posters that can't get off their retro kick :) I just want to see some variety out there!

I hate to tell you this, but a lot of the newer stuff is just as boring, if not maybe more so.

And in 20 years, you will be longing for the "good old days" when the new stuff is boring to you.

The bigger questions is, how do we make this more entertaining? Ultimately, the success of this activity is going to hinge on the entertainment value in the corps performances. I think it can be argued that Regiment's 2008 shows did good things for the activity in 2009. But if we don't create an activity that returns to serving the fans and not the judges, people are going to be turned off and turned away from the activity.

The economy is not going to get any better any time soon. People are getting picky with their money. Less and less of it is going to be spent on drum corps shows, especially if families no longer find any entertainment value in it. I'm sorry, but I'm not spend $150 to take my family of five to a drum corps event if I think they will have a better time at a baseball or football game. And I'm certainly not spending $2k to travel to Indy for a couple of days if I cannot connect emotionally with any of the shows.

I know for some of you kids that think that money grows on trees (including my own), this might be a novel concept. But people are getting picky with their money, and if drum corps is not careful, its affinity for being an activity of the arts will allow it to die a surprisingly fast financial death, ultimately killing the activity.

[INSIDETHEFORTY]

And yet for some people none or few of those corps would appear on their favorite shows of all time.

'89 SCV is the only one that is on mine from yours.

People like drum corps shows for different reasons. Any discussion of what corps should do to make their shows more entertaining comes down to individual preference.

I love this quote. Thank you DBC03!

"People like drum corps shows for different reasons. Any discussion of what corps should do to make their shows more entertaining comes down to individual preference."

This says a lot of what I have been saying. Judges are people too! They have individual preferences. There is no way the individual prefences of 1, 2, 3 or even 10 people can possible reflect the preferences of thousands of people.

If one is doing a statisical analysis of a Drum Corps competition and it's impact on the crowd, one needs to identify the population (the crowd) and then take a sample of that population. The sampling technique we are all used to is known to us as "judging". The sample population we are accustomed to is the Judging Panel. This seems right, but there is a major and inherant flaw in this method. The sample population is far to small to have the sort of accuracy one would desire. For a POPULATION (crowd) of 20,000 drum corps fans, the sample poplulation needs to be much larger than the 7 to 12 people on a DCI judging panel. I know, $$$$ won't allow DCI to employ more judges at any one competition. Also, getting more than a handful of judges on the field at the same time is not practical and can be dangerous for the judges and the corps members. Remember, I marched.

What is the solution? I doubt I have a perfect solution to the problem. However, I do have an idea.

Could someone please tell me how the fan judging in Las Vegas last summer was set up?

I will present my alternate judging system idea in another topic.

I would also like to say that I have enjoyed reading the posts in this thread as well as posting. I have read a lot of good views and some dead-on assessments of the state of drum corps, both in the past and today. I would like to thank all of those who have posted for your views, opinions and passion. You are all "Super-Fans" in my book!

Yours in drum corps,

Ron Gunn

Edited January 9, 2010 by INSIDETHEFORTY

[downtown]

It's going to be interesting to see what comes out of this. This type of discussion was long over due.

[perc2100]

George Hopkins = GENIUS at promoting. He knows how to stir up discussion one way or the other. Just two years ago, it was all about "DCP doesn't know what they're talking about, lets give the DCI fans the most controversial show we can think of that incorporates things we know the fans don't like. Now it's, "hey, drum corps shows are missing excitement and fan-friendly design." I certainly don't have any issues, and I think that it's interesting that so many people who seem to not like his ideals and philosophies hang on his every blog word. I often sit back with a grin watching so many of his blogs posted on DCP, and commented on by non-Cadets fans quick to criticize.

I think the real story is Hopkins is seemingly at a point where he's not sure anymore how to design a show that is both judge friendly and reasonably cleanable by Finals (and perhaps one that he's satisfied with). Looking at Cadets' designs of the past decade, it definitely seems like desperate schizophrenia. Crown pleasing type shows, then a "greatest hits" show, followed by a redo of a mid-90's show done with different music, followed by VERY esoteric/pushing the design envelope/use new technology to the disdain of the fans shows, and ending with an Anniversary show sure to please the fans. No other consistent Top 6 corps, IMO, has been as schizophrenic in their show designs from year to year, and Hopkins' statements on his blogs seem to paint the picture of a show designer who doesn't know what to do anymore.

Personally, I have no problem with Cadets changing things up every couple of years to find what works best for them, and for the bulk of Hopkins tenure at Cadets the corps has consistently performed my favorite shows (Champions or no). But the past ten years have left me scratching my head not trying to figure out what is up with their shows from year to year, but trying to figure out why Cadets have lost a little something from their show designs. I'm really hyped that this blog seems to imply that Hopkins is having similar thoughts, and if that's the case I really look forward to what they bring in 2010 and beyond.

[INSIDETHEFORTY]

Ironically, a bunch of drum corps standbys come from arrangements of pieces with lots of synth.

Also, anybody who has ever listened to the CD of My Spanish Heart knows about all of the synth work in that. Oh, the possibilities.

Lance, did you see SCV in 1980? Wasn't that awesome? When everyone else was doing left/right symetrical drill, SCV came out doing single pictures on a canvas! I went nuts every time I saw them that summer!!

Ron Gunn

[Jeff Ream]

According to the JUDGES, it is.

HOWEVER, if DCI wants to survive, they had better get the judges onboard. The idea is to cater to the fans! After all, the FANS, not the judges, pay the bills!

Give us, the fans, want we want if you want our $$$$!

BOTTOM LINE!

Ron Gunn

explain Phantom in 08