What is missing from Drum Corps today

[glory]

The problem doesn't start with how designers program, it starts with what the judges reward. If we want to see things change, it has to start with what DCI judges reward, what they find critical, and how they are educated to do so. Only then will you see show design change, at least for the corps that don't step outside the box, which are admittedly very, very few.

I don't buy this. The Cadets in the early 80s didn't aim for the judges sweet spot. Neither did Cavies in this decade. I don't think BD did last year either.

HH

[Whiskey]

The problem doesn't start with how designers program, it starts with what the judges reward. If we want to see things change, it has to start with what DCI judges reward, what they find critical, and how they are educated to do so. Only then will you see show design change, at least for the corps that don't step outside the box, which are admittedly very, very few.

Question. Doesn't various corps' designers and instructors meet with judges each year to present their views about how this system should be interpreted and revised if necessary? We can assign fault with the judging all we want to, but part of where we are today is because the various designers and instructors of the corps have said this will be what to look for and what should get rewarded.

[mobrien]

by playing up the theme tho, you can create incredible emotional effects....look at Spartacus

You're missing the larger point; EVERYONE is doing "concept", regardless of how strong the concepts are, because they're afraid that if they DON'T have a concept, that the judges will think they don't know what they're doing.

I made the argument at the RAMD symposium 12 or 13 years ago that most 'theme' shows are overwrought and under-supported, a feeling that hasn't changed since then. For every one that gets it right, there are five that don't (and the more literal or the more tortured they are, the more likely they are to hit the FAIL button). If I don't care for "The Life of the Mind" as a show concept, I'm stuck with 11 minutes of someone telling me a story I'm not interested in seeing. If they eschew the concept or title and just play 3 or 4 pieces that strike their fancy that year, they have a greater chance of connecting with the crowd at least some of the time.

Like it or not, people are extremely prejudicial in terms of their entertainment tastes. If they've decided they don't like a particular idea or plot line, they're gonna check out and not check back in. Most cases, if I'm 3 minutes into a show, and it seems the concept is gonna be "one of those..." (and we all know when we see 'em), I'm less likely to stay engaged.

Cue golf claps.

Edited January 7, 2010 by mobrien

[FHdork]

<The problem doesn't start with how designers program, it starts with what the judges reward.>

Ditto

(I know...I'm hearing that hilarious scene from Blazing Saddles, too....all from the word...'ditto')

But seriously - as Bruckner pointed out, the kings of design in drum corps (and they are all 'kings') like things the way they are. As an amazing horn instructor I know once said, 'everyone likes to play with their toy - and drum corps is the ultimate toy' (or something like that...). The influential get something out of drum corps being the way it is - they are rewarded psychically - psychologically - by seeing their creations performed as they conceived them. They have unconditional love for their offspring, and it doesn't matter if their baby is a monster or not - they love him. And that's not even mentioning the charge they must get out of every member working their tail off to bring the designer's vision to life. Imagine the ego stroke from seeing your artistic child given that kind of effort from so many different people?

I cannot see the designers working today moving in more entertaining directions. They've sweat artistic blood in bringing the shows we see on the field to life, and no matter how many of us call their baby ugly and in desperate need of a post-birth abortion, they're going to continue to create similar babies.

Lest you all think I hate all drum corps shows...I don't. I like much of what I see and hear. But Hop's friend is absolutely right: I'm almost never drawn out of my seat by the sheer power of the performance. I appreciate the shows we are all decrying - but on a more intellectual level than an emotional one. I miss that visceral, emotional reaction to shows - which is, I think, the point of Hop and his friend -

[Jeff Ream]

You're missing the larger point; EVERYONE is doing "concept", regardless of how strong the concepts are, because they're afraid that if they DON'T have a concept, that the judges will think they don't know what they're doing.

I made the argument at the RAMD symposium 12 or 13 years ago that most 'theme' shows are overwrought and under-supported, a feeling that hasn't changed since then. For every one that gets it right, there are five that don't (and the more literal or the more tortured they are, the more likely they are to hit the FAIL button). If I don't care for "The Life of the Mind" as a show concept, I'm stuck with 11 minutes of someone telling me a story I'm not interested in seeing. If they eschew the concept or title and just play 3 or 4 pieces that strike their fancy that year, they have a greater chance of connecting with the crowd at least some of the time.

Like it or not, people are extremely prejudicial in terms of their entertainment tastes. If they've decided they don't like a particular idea or plot line, they're gonna check out and not check back in. Most cases, if I'm 3 minutes into a show, and it seems the concept is gonna be "one of those..." (and we all know when we see 'em), I'm less likely to stay engaged.

Cue golf claps.

i dont think the problem is that everyone has themed shows. i think the problem is THE THEMES THEMSELVES.

[supersop]

the best and most accurate statement concerning todays drum corps I have ever seen, and thanks to Hop for posting it on his blog/

The sad thing Jeff .......... many have been saying this for a decade. Openly. They've taken their lumps and it's even been said directly to Hop on many many occassions. Not that The Cadets are the source of the problem ... but they did start it along with a couple of other friends. The fact is, the time has come that certain members of the DCI hierarchy are finally willing to listen because they're getting bored ... not feeling the love ..... and are starting to get that the numbers are slipping because the product isn't so hot (no matter how flashy).

What the posting of this letter truly shows ... is that Hop was willing to listen to a large donar .. and not the $1,000 a year variety. You would think that after losing 50 of those donars you wouldn't care what the $50K donar was saying .. because you just lost half of your donation revenue and 95% of your supporters.

I don't think the people at the head of DCI are really very good at math when it doesn't come to money.

[84BDsop]

i dont think the problem is that everyone has themed shows. i think the problem is THE THEMES THEMSELVES.

Agreed...I can think of several themed shows that worked VERY well....84 Garfield, 84 Suncoast, 88 SCV, 81-82 Regiment, 92 Cadets, 91 Star....

It's not the idea...it's the execution.

Then again, if you pick "Variations on a Theme in Q# Minor" you're already behind the 8-ball...

[Jeff Ream]

The sad thing Jeff .......... many have been saying this for a decade. Openly. They've taken their lumps and it's even been said directly to Hop on many many occassions. Not that The Cadets are the source of the problem ... but they did start it along with a couple of other friends. The fact is, the time has come that certain members of the DCI hierarchy are finally willing to listen because they're getting bored ... not feeling the love ..... and are starting to get that the numbers are slipping because the product isn't so hot (no matter how flashy).

What the posting of this letter truly shows ... is that Hop was willing to listen to a large donar .. and not the $1,000 a year variety. You would think that after losing 50 of those donars you wouldn't care what the $50K donar was saying .. because you just lost half of your donation revenue and 95% of your supporters.

I don't think the people at the head of DCI are really very good at math when it doesn't come to money.

i have been saying it too, trust me. And yes, i find it funny that a large donor saying gets the attention...but you know us DCP/RAMD people, we're old fuddy duddies stuck in the past

[Jeff Ream]

Agreed...I can think of several themed shows that worked VERY well....84 Garfield, 84 Suncoast, 88 SCV, 81-82 Regiment, 92 Cadets, 91 Star....

It's not the idea...it's the execution.

Then again, if you pick "Variations on a Theme in Q# Minor" you're already behind the 8-ball...

and worse...i have seen some of these same ideas done in indoor shows and with band shows that were easier to follow than what we see on the DCI field.

i've said it before, I'll say it again. at a clinic I saw Cesario do a few years ago, he said "the biggest problem is too many designers are too busy designing to impress their friends and some judges, that they forget the fans...and some judges as well.

judges are fans...they WANT to be entertained. They WANT to shed a tear or laugh or yell "WOW THAT WAS AWESOME!" into their recorders.

However, few seem to want to actually be bold enough to design a show that makes the judges and fans do so."

he's so right

[supersop]

I don't buy this. The Cadets in the early 80s didn't aim for the judges sweet spot. Neither did Cavies in this decade. I don't think BD did last year either.

HH

I would have to disagree about the Cavies and BD. Their shows have been more forumalic than any other corps over the past decade. This IS in fact what the judges were looking for. The look for that formula of elements and design that are timed blatantly throughout the show. The Cadets fell into this trap momentarily but it didn't work for them ... so they bucked and tried something completely _______________ (fill in the blank).

I agree that Garfield in the 80's had no interest in formula or sheets (other than they wanted to win by being great). The shows were central to Zingali and Primes genius. I'm sure there were many more minds and ideas in the mix .. but Zingali drove the change with his organic freehand design ... Prime with his great arrangements .... and a new monster was born .. one that shaped the greatest 15 years of creativity and exploration in our activity.

What's different from now to then? Read the original post. No fire. No sizzle. All flash.

YES, BD and Cavies are guilty of this ... but as I've said 1000 times ... who can blame them? That's the game ... it's what works to win, and it's a shame.