New tour concept for 2011 proposed

[Scottishfan]

Id rather donate to Indiana Eclipse than any of these 'G7' corps at this point.

Ha ha. Nice reference.

[BigPapiBass5]

Eclipse would be starting in a terrible year if this happened

[Bruckner8]

As a fan, I can see how, at least initially.

However, when does that become diminishing returns from those groups? What if, as the years go by, we lose more and more of the groups that are the training grounds for these G7 units?

What about the instructor jobs? Design positions? How does anyone break into this new group?

It's a fun "best of the best" idea for now, but you can't expect to take the cream of the crop and pit them against each other year after year and not see stagnation . . .competively, artistically and, eventually, financially.

Yup, all valid issues, but at least this is a start on something new. IMO, stagnation already exists, and this is a way to stir the pot. As people have already pointed out ("WHo decided the G7? PR was 9th last year! Why is CC already in with only 3 top 6 finishes?") the "top tier" concept will have to be malleable. Maybe in 3 years, it will be re-evaluated,and expandeD, contracted, or changed.

If it works, then non-G7 corps will have more incentive to get into that group. I'd love to see a Top 12 so equally excellent that Semi Finals #12 has a legit shot at #1 the next night.

I like to see REPEATED success rewarded. I like to see REPEATED failure punished. (You guessed it, I'm not a fan of "too big to fail.")

BTW, how can excellence ever become stagnant? I'm never bored by excellence.

[DrinkinOuttaCups]

I'm going to bed now, but I bet that this thread will be 10 pages longer by the time I wake up (I have it set to 20 posts per page, but the debate doesn't look like it's stopping any time soon!).

[perc2100]

FWIW, I think that the proposal is fairly vague: it talks about some explicit changes ("G7 corps due their thing Friday & Saturday, do the DCI think Sunday-Wednesday), but doesn't go into too much detail about other changes (such as the financial changes).

I guess we can look at this in a couple of ways:

GOD

* brings two Top 7 corps to California, giving Cali fans more top corps

* the corps still do the DCI stuff more than the G2 stuff

* fans will get more opportunities to see Top 7 corps compete against each other head-head, rather than just the Regional competitions

* gives members more performance opportunities (at least that's kind of implied)

* this sounds very similar to the Tour of Champions thing from a few years ago, which was GREAT for the fans and corps alike

* the motion to further review for this tour modification passed 12-9; since there are 7 corps looking to change (maybe only 6, depending on what Adolf said regarding Cavaliers), that means there were 5 other directors who think this is an interesting enough change to explore further

BAD/UNKNOWN

* potentially less money for non-G7 corps. We can think about the different scenarios, and most of them don't bode well for the other DCI corps in pay: fewer (or no) Top 7 corps at a show probably will hurt attendance at the DCI shows. The new proposal MIGHT mean less money across the board for non-G7 corps (that part seemed a little vague).

* possible reduction to DCI's staff. I know people who work for DCI, and I know that they are pretty under-staffed as it is; cutting them back even more will make for a more difficult time covering all of the necessary duties through out the year and during the tour.

* this will more than likely cause a pretty big tear within the DCI ranks. Solidarity isn't a bad thing, and no one likes to hear their colleague that you're not as important/essential in the grand scheme of things.

* how will they determine who is in the G7 combine (heh; see what I did there)? Will that change year to year based on who made Top 7 competitively the previous year, or will it be more consistent and assume that the G7 corps mentioned last weekend will always be the top draw?

* obviously this could cause more disconnect with some of the fans. If people actually put their money where their mouth is and avoid the G7 shows, it could cause corps to lose money and become less financially stable.

* kind of seems like the G7 corps want their cake and want to eat is too. "we want to generate more money for ourselves by excluding corps we don't feel are the big draw, but we still want to do the DCI thing so we don't screw up our bread and butter." I could see how that mentality would get old quick for people

* are there enough show sights to support extra performances? Are there enough fans to fill stadiums at both venues to make it worthwhile to all; if G7 are in Allentown on a Friday night, and the rest of the DCI shows are within a hundred miles of so, we could see market overs saturation for all. Think of the 2000 US Presidential Election; Ralph Nader split votes from Al Gore, causing Gore to get fewer votes than he might've gotten without Nader in the picture, and lost the election.

* the Dan A. thing seems a little crappy. I've heard some stories about things that happened last summer between him and another director (who incidentally is on on this G7 thing), and it perhaps might seem both a little vindictive (for all we know, and this is gross speculation and nothing more, he could've shot this down at one point and the the G7 crew decided "ok then, screw you: we'll get you out of here."

To be honest, I still think the actual proposal is not as horrible as it was originally made out to be the past few days. If you read everything with an open mind and don't focus on the verbiage that could be come off as negative, this could actually be an OK thing for all. I would love for there to be a revenue sharing incentive for the other corps to get a piece of the pie; you could argue that the elite corps are potentially taking away revenue from them. It would help smooth things over with everyone, but it might also negate the purpose of the venture.

For me personally, I have some reservations and want to see more details regarding the financial impact. But I think in general this could be good for the fans.

[BRASSO]

I think you should be concerned about the Open Class.

You should also be concerned about the rest of the World Class and the DCI organization.

This is ALL about the G7.

Read the proposal. Then read the DCW article. Then read between the lines.

The G7 makes a proposal to the 9 member Board - of which 4 of the 9 are also members of the G7. The Board then says, "Why yes, G7 group. Please continue to develop this."

Based on that, there is an emergency meeting of the voting member corps. In other words, the rest of the World Class can see what is going on and they vote to remove the majority of the Board.

This isn't over - it is just beginning. The G7 proposal looks like the first shot across the bow, IMO.

In a previous thread, several people speculated that it was all about the money. It is all about the money and the power.

the press release above states that ( quote ) "the goal of this proposal ( G-7 ) is to increase the overall quality level and stability of ALL the Corps ".

How dumb do they think people are to believe this for even a second ? Also, from the close 12-9 vote, it appears lots of others within DCI also arn't buying this B.S. either.

Edited May 20, 2010 by BRASSO

[Rifuarian]

The first thing I do when looking at the DCI schedule is look for shows with more corps from the proposed G7. If a show has only 1, I won't attend, period. If the show has 2 of them, then I'll think about it within distance/cost/venue factors. If the show has 3, I'll start feeling little butterflies in my tummy.

And for every show, I'll be late, not caring one bit about what I might "miss" at the beginning of the show.

When I pay $$ for a "show" of any kind (Orchestra, Broadway, Rock Concert, etc), I want excellence for 100% of the show...not 2/7, 1/6, 3/8.....I went to Semi Finals....ONCE, and never again. I only go to Finals and Regionals now, and I hang out in the warmup area until #8 or 7 are about to go on. (or 3-4 at a two-day regional)

I'm glad that some people find "educational and entertainment" value in the NON-G7.

I just want excellence. If you can't tell the difference in excellence between the proposed G7 and the rest, more power to you. Unfortunately for me, I can.

What would be great, is if they had shows with only 4 corps, all from G7! I'd love to go to a show, starting at 7:00, have it be over by 8:30 with full retreat/encore! 100% FUN AND EXCELLENCE!

I'm fully on board with this concept, power-grab or not.

This is a common sentiment, and it's what these seven corps are banking on, particularly from the marching band market (which understandably focuses on the top corps as the best examples for band students). And they're right. Many of us do it, whether we'll admit it or not. DCI has always served the interests of the strongest corps, and because of this we, the fans, have always rewarded them for it, abandoning the VFW, the AL, DCM, etc. to follow the biggest acts to their new homes. This new proposal is the logical extension of that trend.

But now it has come down to this: Do what's best for the elite, or do what's best for drum corps as a whole. Is the current system subsidation? Maybe, but DCI and the elites dragged many of these corps into the current situation by eliminating the alternatives . . . they owe them something. They need to give back to those that have sacrificed the most.

No one should criticize anybody for being this honest. The fact that a proposal like this is even possible is our collective responsibility. The elites are doing what's best for themselves, which is their right. If anyone is entertained by only elite, and only care about their interests, that's their privilege. The rest of us need to make sure we do what's right for drum corps.

[CorpsFan.]

Yup, all valid issues, but at least this is a start on something new. IMO, stagnation already exists, and this is a way to stir the pot. As people have already pointed out ("WHo decided the G7? PR was 9th last year! Why is CC already in with only 3 top 6 finishes?") the "top tier" concept will have to be malleable. Maybe in 3 years, it will be re-evaluated,and expandeD, contracted, or changed.

If it works, then non-G7 corps will have more incentive to get into that group. I'd love to see a Top 12 so equally excellent that Semi Finals #12 has a legit shot at #1 the next night.

I like to see REPEATED success rewarded. I like to see REPEATED failure punished. (You guessed it, I'm not a fan of "too big to fail.")

BTW, how can excellence ever become stagnant? I'm never bored by excellence.

Do you really think this can happen if the G7 are getting all the money, have all the power, and control the schedule?

[Kamarag]

The thing is, once these seven have a big pot to split seven ways (if they split anything at all) there is no way they are going to expand to eight or more. There were already directors that didn't want to take a world class pot split 22 ways and expand it to 23.

[GMichael1230]

Yup, all valid issues, but at least this is a start on something new. IMO, stagnation already exists, and this is a way to stir the pot. As people have already pointed out ("WHo decided the G7? PR was 9th last year! Why is CC already in with only 3 top 6 finishes?") the "top tier" concept will have to be malleable. Maybe in 3 years, it will be re-evaluated,and expandeD, contracted, or changed.

If it works, then non-G7 corps will have more incentive to get into that group. I'd love to see a Top 12 so equally excellent that Semi Finals #12 has a legit shot at #1 the next night.

I like to see REPEATED success rewarded. I like to see REPEATED failure punished. (You guessed it, I'm not a fan of "too big to fail.")

BTW, how can excellence ever become stagnant? I'm never bored by excellence.

Unfortunately your view of excellence isnt that of someone elses.......This activity is dying because of too many changes too fast for no substantial reason, to benefit a few, again they are doing the same thing....the rate its going, you wont have to show up late to see the "cream of the crop", there will be nothing left

G