"FA16" vs "G7"

[84skyrydr]

Well, the non G7 corps aren't real drum corps anyway. Maybe if they worked harder they would be in the position of the G7 corps.

Nothing personal against the non G7 corps

Or maybe, if the kids that are instructed and trained by the non G7 corps would STAY in their corps instead of jumping ship for immediate gratification, then there would be more parity in corps like the dinosaur days.

[Big Bad Bari]

The first thing I want to ask is: If it's that painful for you, why do you still go or care? Why are you here? Then I want to know what the heck kind of shows you go to where only 50% of the time there's "entertainment" on the field. The time block between corps has been compressed to force quick setup specifically for this purpose. It's, in fact, why we now have "pre-show". And, from my standpoint, the chance to stand and stretch, watch the set-up activity, and re-live the show that was just on fills the time between shows quite nicely, thank you. The time between shows allows for a quick bite, or restroom trip (if you hurry!) and thins out the crowds while INT is playing.

Ummm what shows do you go to? Does it not take a corps 10 minutes to get set? Does a show not take some 10 to 11 minutes to complete? Is this not a 50/50 distribution of time? I actually love watching shows, milling about and meeting awesome drum corps folks and such but I have over 27 years in the activity and have many friends that I am obligated to visit with when I attend shows. Also I am on the West Coast where the shows I go to with the exception of DCI West have no MAJOR DRAW! We have a few ALL AGE corps who open up the show (Thats where you will find me marching and playing) and then we have some Open Class Corps and if we are lucky we have a lower tier World Class corps that hasn't left for National Tour yet. I get to see Vanguard and BD once per season very early on and if we are lucky we get some visitors at DCI West from out of the area. After that, the shows are all about showing support to the kids that are in corps that are arguably NOT ENTERTAINING but we show them support and love as well as encouragement. SO I hope that answers why I am here as well as if it is painful for me... What I refer to is getting people to come to shows that are not pre-disposed to do so...

No, not the world at large - we'd have trouble getting tickets if that were the case and we're smarter than that. But we are exciting and entertaining to most people who appreciate live, acoustic, brass and percussion on a football field. I'd say that, while not the whole world, that's a pretty big group of people. And many contend (as do I) that all you need to do is get any musician in the stands and they'll be entertained, even if they don't buy another ticket ever. And while I appreciate your experience in life I certainly refute it, as is my opinion.

I agree with you that if you get any musician in the stands that they will enjoy the shows and sounds. However you have an aweful lot of qualifiers on your statement... I mean 'cmon "People who appreciate live, acoustic, brass and percussion on a football field" and then you go on to say that a pretty BIG group of people would be interested... I wonder how often our activity or "acoustic, brass and percussion, on a football field" comes to the top of the most searched items on Yahoo?

You sound like a passive personality who's willing to ride the coattails of the activity and let it carry you wherever it's to go. It also sounds as though you agree with the direction the G7 wants to go. Many of us don't feel the way you do and, in fact, disagree with your assessment.

My passive personality has afforded me an UNDEFEATED drum corps season with a championship ring 7 seasons of marching and allows me to solo with the likes of Bonnie Ott, Chris Nalls and Larrie Dastrup so I kind of like how it is working out for me so far... So I do not ride on anyones coattails my dear activity partner... I have created roadways for others to follow! And that my dear friend is Drum Corps!!!!! (Oh and check with ANY Blue Devil as to the passive personality traits of Tony Signorelli)

So now that we know where we are both coming from... What do we do Hmmmmmm? Do we keep complaining about the haves and have nots or do we continue to support the activity we love in whatever form it takes? I am for the latter... And if we can make the shows shorter so people can watch and not make it an entire day event then bully for us!

[garfield]

So now that we know where we are both coming from... What do we do Hmmmmmm? Do we keep complaining about the haves and have nots or do we continue to support the activity we love in whatever form it takes? I am for the latter... And if we can make the shows shorter so people can watch and not make it an entire day event then bully for us!

(sorry, double click)

Hey Tony! I'm not attacking your qualifications! I read your profile. And as a fellow paisan I understand the importance of a restrained personality.

But you still haven't provided any data to back up your assertion that the time between corps needs to be modified and/or spiced up with acrobatics in order to attract the crowd we desire. We're an activity that doesn't allow loud talking during the show; the 'tween show time allows conversation about what was just seen.

Where we go from here is on the route to compromise. I'm Italian, so I HATE compromise, but I'm old enough to know that it's usually the only way to progress forward in the battle between the status quo and the avant guard.

If you are simply comfortable riding along with where the activity goes, then that's fine! Ride along! But I feel differently. I would offer measurable modifications to the existing model, while you seem to condone wholesale baby/bathwater throwing. "The Sky Is Falling" is not a proved contention in this debate.

Your accomplishments are commendable, for sure. But I fail to see how they qualify you as having THE correct answers of our way forward.

Oh, and my acoustic brass and percussion on the field comment needed a [/sarcasm] modifier, but I think you'd agree that even that is a sizable group. Add in those who don't care about instrumentation and enjoy an extravaganza and it's truly a sizable group indeed.

I meant no insult, but your point is not proven, IMO.

Capiche?

Edited June 5, 2010 by garfield

[audiodb]

Ummm what shows do you go to? Does it not take a corps 10 minutes to get set? Does a show not take some 10 to 11 minutes to complete? Is this not a 50/50 distribution of time?

No, it isn't. Corps have 17 minute blocks of time in which to get on the field, set up/warm up, perform a 10-11.5 minute show, and get off the field.

[BigW]

The comments that Drum Corps needs to reach out and crawl to the general public to survive are way off. Sorry- but time and time again, it's failed. Certain people like the activity. DCI will not and cannot be NASCAR, or the NFL. Trying to pose it as such makes for derision. I don't care what you do to make it faster, slicker, packaged in a "more exciting fashion"-- trying to reach these people is impossible. They don't even watch halftime shows anymore, they're rarely shown on TV, even when its a "Show Band". Halftime Pagentry is now for game analysis and to go get your beer and a snack, unless it's some kind of special extravaganza that has nothing to do with field music of any sort anymore.

I still remember the painful debacle that was Cadets '96 at the Olympics. A perfect opportunity to showcase everything good and special about the activity, they show the last 30 seconds of the actual show, then put on that horrid, condescending excuse for entertainment. It was like taking Secretariat and hooking him to an ice-cream wagon. Blast! didn't do what people thought it would. I gave up long ago trying to entice the normals into the activity. People either enjoy it or they do not. It's a serious niche activity. Not everyone appreciates or gets it, nor enjoys it. Having one idiot I tried to show what I did and enjoy call it "cute and kitschy" to me after I showed him the SCV Miss Saigon show just reinforced that belief.

Most people already think Drum Corps is nothing more than a silly halftime show on steriods and could care less about it no matter what and how you do things to try and gather their interest.. Do the activity for the people who actually DO appreciate and care about it. The right people like it and get it. They'll come if its good.

And what the heck is the issue with sitting and waiting for a couple of minutes between shows unless you have ADD/ADHD? Corps have and need time to set up and prep, let them use it. Cut the time alloted down if they didn't have to set up the electronics and other added stuff and made their shows more sublime, it'd cut down on that nonsense, would it not? - As others have said on other threads, the time between shows allows some intelligent conversation between shows to discuss what's been seen. It also at times allows me to catch up with old friends. I think that's a canard to say that's a problem.

And as for its not being the "younger generation's fault," who cares how old the person is as to whose fault it is? More divisive and rather obnoxious commentary there? Hop and his ilk are my age or older, and I disagree heartily with about 80 percent of his crap, so don't look at people like me as the problem.

[BRASSO]

No he didn't. Maybe just with you...

He is passionate about what he believes. There's nothing wrong with that.

Also, he's rooting for the underdog, which makes him even more noble.

It's all just marching band anyway...

It's interesting that although still a minority,after reading this thread. it's apparent that some people really do like the favorites, and don' t like to see change at the top, and would be ok with group slotting, and would be ok if they continue to see the same G- 7 Corps rotating at the top the rest of their lives. I don't see the excitement in that, but then again lots of people DO apparently like to see the Lakers play the Celtics for more than half the NBA titles, and they do tune into watch the other favorites play in the other sports too. I prefer variety and watching the underdogs get to the top. But to each his own.

Edited June 5, 2010 by BRASSO

[BigW]

It's interesting that although still a minority,after reading this thread. it's apparent that some people really do like the favorites, and don' t like to see change at the top, and would be ok with group slotting, and would be ok if they continue to see the same G- 7 Corps rotating at the top the rest of their lives. I don't see the excitement in that, but then again lots of people DO apparently like to see the Lakers play the Celtics for more than half the NBA titles, and they do tune into watch the other favorites play in the other sports too. I prefer variety and watching the underdogs get to the top. But to each his own.

If we're gonna have slotting, then why even bother to compete at all? What inegrity that still exists goes right out the window.

[audiodb]

And what the heck is the issue with sitting and waiting for a couple of minutes between shows unless you have ADD/ADHD? Corps have and need time to set up and prep, let them use it. Cut the time alloted down if they didn't have to set up the electronics and other added stuff and made their shows more sublime, it'd cut down on that nonsense, would it not?

If you really want to cut out dead time between shows, go all the way old-school....use only what you can carry, and bring back the starting line/finish line. The next corps takes the starting line, and is ready to step off by the time the preceding corps finishes their show.

[Insert name here]

I know that others that have marched in the corps will NOT be offended by this...because we have laughed about it many times. But if you were to look and see at the lack of talent that walks through the door at Cadets every year, you would be floored and have a new found respect for the education received.

2009 - We could barely hold our horns up in April. True story.

Work hard...thats the name of the game.

I can completely agree to this. I heard alot from people who have marched corps that they had their fair share of "rookie" who are awful. A Phantom guard friend of mine said in 2008, at least half of them were awful. But they did win. The number one advice I heard when auditioning at Crown was "be assertive, take action and ask questions" Alot of groups (be it drum corp or winterguard, since I have experience in both) will take people not necessarily on their level but their willingness. I can't see any corp only taking all good people because some are bound to not have the heart and then they will quit. When I was at winterguard auditions they didn't cut anyone cause they knew that the people they didn't want would eventually quit once they realized it wasn't for them.

But about G-7, this is what I've been told.

The G7 wants to bring more people into the stands. They want more people to become fans. I heard something along these lines last night "The original DCI fans, the original marchers, are either passing away or not coming to shows anymore. There are less new fans than the original. The stands are becoming smaller and smaller each year. Having the opportunity to get fans [with the productions and such] again is what we want"

It seems that some corps in the G7 just want the shows to become a production. They want the fans to partake in warm-up, have times for everyone to be able to watch their favorite corp besides just in the stands.

I believe this interaction is brilliant. At most shows (no offense to the lower corps) but I will wait to go in to around the top 12-15 because I'm listening to the top warm-up in the parking lots.

Also, its not just the G7.. it can change. Like if Phantom doesn't place top the next 2 years then they are out. If Blue Stars rank the next 3 years then they are in, its based on the last 3 years (I believe). So it can change to G9, or whatever. So people can't get mad on how its exclusive because other can get in. It just seems exclusive now.

I think this will be good. But keep in mind that I am a Trooper fan and Blue Stars fan (I was supposed to march Troop last year but then I lost school money and had to stay home). And I love Boston (the first corp I saw live. They practiced at my high school my first year of marching band). And Scouts, love them too (except sometimes the guard uniform choices). Honestly the corps I love, half are G7, half are not. So don't think I like G7 because its the corps I love. But if the lower corps work hard enough they too can be in it.

Those are my 2 cents.

[Scoutnout]

If you really want to cut out dead time between shows, go all the way old-school....use only what you can carry, and bring back the starting line/finish line. The next corps takes the starting line, and is ready to step off by the time the preceding corps finishes their show.

We can bring back the concert formation and the color Pre too..lol...all kidding aside. If we dont have those few minutes between corps how can we rush to the bathroom, stand and stretch and of course critique the hell out of who was just on.