G- 7 Corps Qualification

[BRASSO]

This is really what all this is about, isn't it, Brasso? Being left out! First of all, these are just names of corps, the people inside of them have changed dramatically (except maybe BD) over the years.

If you have a car company and it makes 20 different models of cars. And you have 4 or 5 that are keeping your company afloat (from sales) and you spend the lion share of the ad money on them and are consistently putting their images on ads about the company. I suppose the other models "teams" that are less attractive and are producing lower end sales might feel left out. But if you use the top sellers to keep the company open for business and afford the "other models" time to get better, my guess is that they would no be critical of the strategy.

You have a history of being level-headed on here, and it's a bit puzzling to me to see your attempt at creating a "classism" kind of wedge among corps that are ALL filled with hard working kids, busting their ### right now to give us their very best! Having no knowledge of all this crap! I just don't get it!

You are a former marcher of the Blue Devils, so I'll frame it this way. What if you were in the Blue Devils in 1973 and you heard that a group of 7 top placing Corps within the newly formed DCI World Class, decided to form a group for setting the rules of engagement in competition, what shows everybody would be in, how much would be paid, who would do encores ,etc and essentially lock out the Blue Devils. Do you think Gerry Seawright your Corps Director in 1973 wouldn't scream bloody blue murder along with the Cadets, Cavs, etc...... especially if SCV was one of the G-7 Proponents, along with 27th Lancers, Blue Stars, Madison, Troopers, Anaheim Kingsmen ? Com'on, be honest. The Blue Devls rightfully would have seen this as a power grab by these 7 back then to solidify their current competitive and financial position and you HAVE to know this. If such a proposal was adopted and put in place, your chances at the Blue Devils of moving up quickly as your Corps did in 1975-76 and into the top 7 tier would have been very slim.

Edited May 23, 2010 by BRASSO

[Plan9]

You are a former marcher of the Blue Devils, so I'll frame it this way. What if you were in the Blue Devils in 1973 and you heard that a group of 7 top placing Corps within the newly formed DCI World Class, decided to form a group for setting the rules of engagement in competition, what shows everybody would be in, how much would be paid, who would do encores ,etc and essentially lock out the Blue Devils. Do you think Gerry Seawright your Corps Director in 1973 wouldn't scream bloody blue murder along with the Cadets, Cavs, etc...... especially if SCV was one of the G-7 Proponents, along with 27th Lancers, Blue Stars, Madison, Troopers, Anaheim Kingsmen ? Com'on, be honest. The Blue Devls rightfully would have seen this as a power grab to solidify their current competitive and financial position and you HAVE to know this. If such a proposal was adopted and put in place, your chances at the Blue Devils of moving up quickly as they did in 1975 into the top tier would be very slim.

First off, never marched BD, my marching years were spent marching in rice paddies. I am a mere supporter and fan of BD (and BAC before them). But above all, I appreciate good organizations and talent...and BD is crazy good in both areas.

To your scenario, it would certainly twist my nose if my corps was not picked (based on the prevailing preception of skill and popularity) to be part of a "special group of voting members". But, I believe that I would then attempt to understand what was "really" motivating the "top 7" to take this action. What's the problem?

For me, it's utterly simplistic to think that these 7 corps are making this effort to simply secure their place at the top. I mean, come on, they own the top 3. Though I'm not one to imagine the thinking of Hoppy and the others in this, my guess is that they may see some quantity of corps (Open and WC) that simply plod along year after year (what we used to call "following the flag" in the military). They benefit from the draw of the "top 7 or 9ish" and it's a sort of "ground hog day" kind of thing.

I personally feel they respect the entire corps architecture but know that the present marketing strategy is stagnant and needs new ideas. The existing corps of WC and OC don't need to change, but they sure as hell need to get off their ### and seek a wider market and better ways to connect to a media saturated world. As I said a few minutes ago in another thread.... the G7 probably feel that if "you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem".

Edited May 23, 2010 by Plan9

[GMichael1230]

You have a history of being level-headed on here, and it's a bit puzzling to me to see your attempt at creating a "classism" kind of wedge among corps that are ALL filled with hard working kids, busting their ### right now to give us their very best! Having no knowledge of all this crap! I just don't get it!

Are you kidding me ? Thats what the G-7 proposal stands for, elitism and creating a wedge and you are right there. with bells on as their 'Newsie" spreading their joy and heralding their triumph...enjoy it ! Others have just as much right not to....

G

[GMichael1230]

First off, never marched BD, my marching years were spent marching in rice paddies. I am a mere supporter and fan of BD (and BAC before them). But above all, I appreciate good organizations and talent...and BD is crazy good in both areas.

To your scenario, it would certainly twist my nose if my corps was not picked (based on the prevailing preception of skill and popularity) to be part of a "special group of voting members". But, I believe that I would then attempt to understand what was "really" motivating the "top 7" to take this action. What's the problem?

For me, it's utterly simplistic to think that these 7 corps are making this effort to simply secure their place at the top. I mean, come on, they own the top 3. Though I'm not one to imagine the thinking of Hoppy and the others in this, my guess is that they may see some quantity of corps (Open and WC) that simply plod along year after year (what we used to call "following the flag" in the military). They benefit from the draw of the "top 7 or 9ish" and it's a sort of "ground hog day" kind of thing.

I personally feel they respect the entire corps architecture but know that the present marketing strategy is stagnant and needs new ideas. The existing corps of WC and OC don't need to change, but they sure as hell need to get off their ### and seek a wider market and better ways to connect to a media saturated world. As I said a few minutes ago in another thread.... the G7 probably feel that if "you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem".

Your argument is flawed in many ways..the bottomline is these Grand-7 are thinking only of themsleves, anyone can see that. DCI is about all corps, its a fraternity. Had you marched, you might realize that. These seven are attemppting to change the course and take-off, leaving the rest of their "brothers" behind, instead of working togewther with some classy and siccessful organizations, they are choosing to act arrogant and selfish and worry only about themselves. Come back any way you want in predicatable fashion, but you arent even in the mix of whars going on, and your views, while allowed and equal, to everyone elses...are misguided.

G

[jonnyboy]

What boggles my mind (among other things) with the G7 scenario is that drums corps are not lines of cars or cans of soda, they are people. They are kids, adults, teachers, moms, dads and alumni. Also, not every corps is trying to be top 12, top 7 or top 3. Many corps are happy to tour each year, teach kids about life, have fun in the summer months. Many people on DCP can't get that concept through there thick skulls. Many corps hate to see members leave in search of top 12 or a ring, but also love to see that 15 year old rookie with two left feet and no chops move on to a bigger corps and fight for a medal when they are 21.

There is a hierarchy within corps and within DCI. That is the nature of the beast. That is part of the beauty of corps. So currently there are 7 corps that see themselves as "the draw". You know what, who Fing cares. BD may always be in the top 3, The Cadets may drop no lower than 6th once every 5 years, Crown may implode and have only been top 3 for half a decade, Madison may win in two years.

To answer the question, what qualifies one to be G7? IMO it is the directors of the current G7 minus Crown and Coats, those two corps were asked to fill in the G7 because 7 is a nice round, powerful number. Honestly if either of these corps drops in placement for a few years, the G5 would cut them loose in a heart beat. Heck, if Hopkins decides he wants to go into private industry and retire from corps, The Cadets are dropping to Top 12 status and the G7 corps would drop them like a hot potato.

Let us think for a moment on this G7 thing. What if the Top 12 corps stayed the same for 3 years in a row. Let's add to the scenario that in each of the 3 years the 13th place corps changed, and the 13th place score was 5 points below the 12th place score. What if the finalists got together in the off season and announced: "We are the draw and we want to run DCI, oust the executive director, have our own events on Sundays and Fridays, we get two votes and 13th-22nd all get one vote....and we want to be know as the G12" If you aren't one of use please be prepared to get less money, less exposure and less support......and still try and keep up with us. Good luck.

The G7 want more money to beat up on the rest of the G7, I would love to DCI put a smack down on the multi-million dollar budget concept and boot the corps that have outgrown the DCI concept. Star did it to themselves, maybe BD and The Cadets should take off for year or two and see how the stadium show goes. Come back when you want to play with others.

[jellomello]

DCI is about all corps, its a fraternity. Had you marched, you might realize that. These seven are attemppting to change the course and take-off, leaving the rest of their "brothers" behind, instead of working togewther with some classy and siccessful organizations, they are choosing to act arrogant and selfish and worry only about themselves.

G

I'm sure that even right now the top corps are getting more from DCI then the lower World Class Corps or the Open Class Corps. You could make the argument that all DCI really cares about is the top 12. I once had a person, that knew a fare bit about DCI, (she even auditioned and made an alternate spot for a top 3 corps) ask me if Academy was an Open Class Corp. IMO if DCI was really about working together they would put more behind the lower and Open Class Corps who seem to me always get the short end of the stick.

[esch]

These are many of the same comments that were made in the drum corps mags back in 1970 & 71 when the UOJC and Combine formed and then created DCI. Good arguments on both sides.... marketing is stagnant (so is show design and appeal) but there is always a danger when the elite assume more power.

[perc2100]

This is really what all this is about, isn't it, Brasso? Being left out! First of all, these are just names of corps, the people inside of them have changed dramatically (except maybe BD) over the years.

If you have a car company and it makes 20 different models of cars. And you have 4 or 5 that are keeping your company afloat (from sales) and you spend the lion share of the ad money on them and are consistently putting their images on ads about the company. I suppose the other models "teams" that are less attractive and are producing lower end sales might feel left out. But if you use the top sellers to keep the company open for business and afford the "other models" time to get better, my guess is that they would not be critical of the strategy.

You have a history of being level-headed on here, and it's a bit puzzling to me to see your attempt at creating a "classism" kind of wedge among corps that are ALL filled with hard working kids, busting their ### right now to give us their very best! Having no knowledge of all this crap! I just don't get it!

What's kind of interesting to me, is some of the same folks who bag on the modern generation for feeling a sense of entitlement, of needing to be all PC about how great we all are, are now offended that the true elite of the activity are deeming themselves elite and better than the competition.

I don't agree with this G7 stuff, but it is amusing to see some of the conversation it has sparked

[mcjordansc]

What if you were in the Blue Devils in 1973 and you heard that a group of 7 top placing Corps within the newly formed DCI World Class, decided to form a group for setting the rules of engagement in competition, what shows everybody would be in, how much would be paid, who would do encores ,etc and essentially lock out the Blue Devils.

That is how it was done in the 70s. The top twelve had a vote and the associate corps (13-25) did not.

[garfield]

What's kind of interesting to me, is some of the same folks who bag on the modern generation for feeling a sense of entitlement, of needing to be all PC about how great we all are, are now offended that the true elite of the activity are deeming themselves elite and better than the competition.

I don't agree with this G7 stuff, but it is amusing to see some of the conversation it has sparked

I so want to understand this post. Would you state it again in a different way so I can figure out what the heck you mean?