Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[audiodb]

Unfortunately, I see this as a model for the rich weakening the poor. I believe the G7 are trying to strengthen their position in the overall activity, hoping this will lead to change and growth and prosperity for DCI. But I also believe that this could hurt the middle pack (AA class) and the smaller corps (A class and Open Class). They need to be careful.

Well, I'm glad you aren't falling for this latest Abe-Lincoln-channeling political mischaracterization of DCI revenue sharing as stealing from the rich and giving to the poor.

Ultimately, revenue generated by the cooperative effort of "DCI" should rightly be shared to some extent. If individual corps feel both capable and deserving of more, they are free to do more. They can do more within DCI (perform in more shows, run more shows, do more of the stuff that the revenue-sharing formula takes into account). Or they can do more outside of DCI (more fundraising, merchandising, stage other events besides just DCI contests, run other youth programs).

When they do things outside of DCI, they keep whatever money they make for themselves. If that is what they want....go for it.

[3rd_Star_Brigade]

Hah, what does this even mean? Are you blaming other corps failures on Hop's success?

No, I know YEA! pretty through and through. Hopkins has no other job than YEA! His life's success is determined by the stability of the drum corps and marching band community. He pays for full dinners for his entire staff on tour. I mean, we're not talking McDonalds here. We're talking Red Lobster and Outback every other night.

Add that math for 15 people for (conservative count of 2 months) 60 days at $15-$20 a piece, plus the costs of airfare for Hopkins to move all around the country, the costs of his season tickets in the diamond club of the Philadelphia Phillies several thousand if not tens of thousand (plus nearly every World Series at home last season and before that), an average days worth of Starbucks at $10-$15, putting his daughter through college, etc.

I mean, something is seriously amiss. Why do you think the Cadets are in continual fund raising mode? They have full sponsors for Christ's sake. Instruments, uniforms paid for. Staff all paid. Yet Cadets tuition is the highest in DCI at nearly $3000.

Come on. Hop works for Hop.

[jwillis35]

Earlier in this topic, someone mentioned that it was the Cadets that required a loan from DCI to make it through 2007. Perhaps a better example of health and stability could be found.

I stand corrected.

Also, you brought up some good points that I was not aware of in my earlier post. I guess I always thought the revenue was evenly split for the audio and video that folks buy on the Fan Network and that this is what the G7 corps were upset about. I also had no idea that the market had opened again to outside promoters. At one time I knew that was the case, but then it seemed that everything was run by DCI or the corps. When organizations like DCE, DCS, DCW, and DCM began to dissipate, it seemed to me that DCI just picked up the pieces it wanted and the corps grabbed the rest. We do need the market to be open, so I am glad things have moved back in that direction.

[BRASSO]

I think it's funny that Hop's blog:

http://hopsblog2.livejournal.com/413482.html

Where he quotes Lincoln in an obvious attempt to support the G7 action turns out to be fiction.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/l/lincoln-quotes.htm

How appropriate...

" A house divided against itself, cannot stand "......Abraham Lincoln.

Edited May 27, 2010 by BRASSO

[Bruckner8]

Competition is at the CORE of what this activity is about. Market that! All this extra junk is pointless. I want one ENCORE only after a show, and it should be from the winner.

<sarcasm>

But I thought this was for the children. I thought this was about education and life experience. The competition aspect gets too much focus.

</sarcasm>

Can we have it both ways? (of course...the G7 is the ESSENCE of competition within the educational framework.) If competition is the CORE, then we need to take steps to make DCI more competitive, right? Then the proposal has merit, because making clearly-definable, recognizable classes (A/AA/AAA) SHOULD bring into focus the competitive expectation. A fan watching a show with 2 A, 2 AA and 2 AAA corps will immediately understand that the 2 A corps are competing against each other, etc, and might even come away thinking "wow, I thought the AA winner was better then the AAA winner." Stratification--managed properly--builds expectation and intrigue (like good music/art)

Any show containing ONLY corps of a certain class could be billed as a "special event," and you don't need any more than 5-6 corps. To JW's point, I don't want to see a show with 8 corps that contains pre-show, intermission, post-show, retreat, then parking lot. However, I *DO* want to see a show where competitively-similar corps might do such a thing. I said in an earlier post that I'd love to go to to a show at 7:00 and be done by 8:30 or 9:00, with a very competitive small group of corps,regardless of class! (I can't believe I'm saying this! JW has opened my eyes on this...Although I may prefer the AAA corps on an absolute scale, I can imagine enjoying a show where only A-class corps were competing against EACH OTHER, and ONLY each other in context.)

I usually speak of excellence in an absolute manner, and for myself, I still feel that it is. But under certain circumstances, I think we can market excellence in its relative manner, and preserve the activity.

I like to think this is what G7 is TRYING to do, albeit in the current knee-jerk,not-quite-thinking-it-through rendition.

But that's what DCP is for,right? To set them straight, lol.

[dbc03]

No, I know YEA! pretty through and through. Hopkins has no other job than YEA! His life's success is determined by the stability of the drum corps and marching band community. He pays for full dinners for his entire staff on tour. I mean, we're not talking McDonalds here. We're talking Red Lobster and Outback every other night.

Add that math for 15 people for (conservative count of 2 months) 60 days at $15-$20 a piece, plus the costs of airfare for Hopkins to move all around the country, the costs of his season tickets in the diamond club of the Philadelphia Phillies several thousand if not tens of thousand (plus nearly every World Series at home last season and before that), an average days worth of Starbucks at $10-$15, putting his daughter through college, etc.

I mean, something is seriously amiss. Why do you think the Cadets are in continual fund raising mode? They have full sponsors for Christ's sake. Instruments, uniforms paid for. Staff all paid. Yet Cadets tuition is the highest in DCI at nearly $3000.

Come on. Hop works for Hop.

Yep I'm sure this is all making Hop rich beyond his wildest dreams with his non stop work schedule and $100k a year salary

[audiodb]

Can we have it both ways? (of course...the G7 is the ESSENCE of competition within the educational framework.) If competition is the CORE, then we need to take steps to make DCI more competitive, right?

OK.

Then the proposal has merit, because making clearly-definable, recognizable classes (A/AA/AAA) SHOULD bring into focus the competitive expectation.

No. Breaking the contest into ever-smaller sub-classes makes things less competitive.

[Bruckner8]

No. Breaking the contest into ever-smaller sub-classes makes things less competitive.

A single contest with corps of all classes *IS* less competitive, I agree, BY DEFINITION, because it places undue expectation on the lower corps. But over time, as the system works itself out, the audience will come to recognize that A-class is competing with itself, not AAA. We're kidding ourselves right now (and missing a marketing opportunity) by selling a show with 8 corps, when we all know only two of them have a legit chance of "winning." I think it would be good to setup the program like a marching band show:

Surf (A)

Teal (A)

Spirit (AA)

Madision (AA)

Boston (AA)

SCV (AAA)

Cadets (AAA)

The audience would become knowledgeable about it, and expectation would be set, and thus disappointment would be less likely. "Hey I wonder if Boston has made it to AAA this year! They were so good last year, 7th overall, best in AA!" Stuff like that would be fun to talk about.

A single contest with all corps of the same class is pure competition, again BY DEFINITION, since they can compete with each other in the same level of expectation.

The trick is to come up with a tour that has the right mix of shows with all classes, and shows of same class.

[audiodb]

There are only two ways I can think of to make things more competitive.

1. Greater parity between corps

2. A judging system that produces less predictable results

[BRASSO]

I've noticed little discussion on this thread so far, that the G-7 proposal is also calling for ( quote from the proposal itself )...." the adoption of adjudication initiatives".

In effect, the 7 Corps will be demanding a change of the current judging system to one degree or another.

As time moves forward, this also should prove interesting as to just what this slotted group has in mind to alter the current judging system to their liking ( and most likely advantage ) as well.

Edited May 27, 2010 by BRASSO