The OFFICIAL 2010 Blue Devils Thread

[fsubone]

I appreciate your honest opinion. However, there is a great deal of unsubstantiated accusations in what you wrote. And I, for one, will not let it stand as truth. Suppose I said something about the FSU band on DCP (I assume you are in or were in the FSU band), that you knew to be untrue and was not your past and present reality. How would you receive this comment? This is how years of prejudice are born. If you say the mantra long enough, others will start believing it's true. Every corps has its punks and full-of-themselves members (and even staff), but to characterize an entire organization and its fans by innuendo and rumor is despicable. By the way, I know that wasn't your intent for your post, you were just being honest, and I appreciate that.

Concerning us BD honks, I think you'll find that there are very few BD fans on DCP willing to confront this kind of vitriol. In fact, I've been told by other BD fans to "just let it go, as long as BD wins, it's going to be this way". But it isn't in my DNA to sit back and let nasty comments go untouched. Fair criticism and comments about personal taste...of course; but wholesale attacks on the organization....no way. It's for this reason that I believe some BD posters are viewed with labels of "in your face". I think some on DCP feel that it's our (BD fans) place to sit here and accept the venom...but that's not going to happen with me (and a few other of the insane).

Finally, my one criticism of your post is the incessent use of the comment "BD knows the system and plays the game", inferring "that's why they win"...as if to say, the other corps don't know how to play the game, they are normally better, but BD has been able to maneuver around having to be the best by some sort of numbers game. What a load of crap. It may make the poster feel better about the outcome (therapy), but it's not true and it's insulting.

So....if my comments here are viewed as arrogant, self-absorbed and confrontational, just add it to the pile of misperception that has become "trash mountain" on DCP. And thanks again for your openess...really!

And that's exactly the point that I was trying to make, thank you very much. I never said any of the opinions and negative stuff that BD has been hit with in the past was true at all, if you look closely, I never said this any of it was fact, it's just what's out there. I am a BD fan, not a fan of their more recent work, but I still love them for everything that they do year in and year out. But until they stop being labelled with generally inaccurate stereotypes about who they are and what they do, the hate on here will continue. And I applaud the BD fans and alumni for standing up for their corps through thick and thin, it really shows how much loyalty there is for the organization, especially in an era when corps loyalty is dropping fast. Thank you for standing by your corps.

[Plan9]

Plan I'm not feeling the Go-G7-4 love :)

I didn't disparage the designers (in fact I praised them). Didn't disparage their musical selections either. It's the arrangement I take issue with. IMHO BD has entirely abandoned the musical side of the activity and arranged an effect sound track. There's coordination of the music with each set but there's no continuity of musical thought from set to set *or* from piece to piece when viewed as whole. Effect soundtracks are an important component of movie soundtracks but there's a lot *more* to a great soundtrack than just effects.

And if you think it's a "few folks on DCP" that feel this way, you're sadly mistaken.

The fact that as a parent from another competing corps you feel comfortable going after BD like you are is puzzling to me. I am the same and cannot understand year after year how it's possible to have this stage mother kind of mentality. I will admit to being protective of BD, but not at the expense of another corps. Never having marched, I don't feel I can be critical of what I can't or didn't do myself. I am a BD homer, but fortunately I haven't been put in the position to blindly pump up BD no matter what they present. They have had two (now three) extraordinary productions (in the years I've been with them). Next year if they present a show that is obviously not championship quality, I would hope that I have the honesty to admit it to myself, I think I would.

I suppose it's just me (emphasized) , but I feel that the best approach (particularly for friends and family) is to discuss the good rather than the perceived bad of a competing corps. The test I use is, if I can say it to their face, I'll type it, if I couldn't....I won't. And this goes for any corps. I'm not trying to be a censor of opinions (you have certainly spiced up the discussion here), just trying to understand how family can openly criticize other corps.

If you lined up all of your DCP responses in this thread you would see a definate "tone" about BD. As for me, I happen to love CC (uncompromsingly) and have since I saw them live in Pasadena when we were with BAC. I haven't seen their show this year, but hear great things about it, again. If you search my DCP responses from last year, I'm pretty sure the worst thing (if you can call it that) I said about CC was there use of free body movements and running into formation seemed ala BD from the previous year. And I used it in defense of BD (as usual) saying that BD got beat up for running around in 08, but CC does it in 09 and not a word on DCP! I don't call that a criticism... you might.

[do.it.up.]

Okay First off the person who used bland and boring with Mahler in the same sentence, needs to seriously sit and listen to some of his work, If your not emotionally into it by the end of his 2nd symphony or 8th symphony, then i need to hear some of the stuff you like.

Well, I really like Jason Mraz, Dwele, Nujabes, B.O.B., and Alicia Keys. You can give those a try.

Yes, I've heard those symphonies. Yes, I like them. Yes, I've heard Carolina Crown's rendition. Yes, I'd still much rather listen to something else. Grainger, Maslanka, Holst, Jonathan Newman, John Mackey, or even....dare I say it?--- BD's "5 second musical ideas"

It's my taste. IT'S MUSIC.

[Patrick McNeal]

Plan I'm not feeling the Go-G7-4 love :)

I didn't disparage the designers (in fact I praised them). Didn't disparage their musical selections either. It's the arrangement I take issue with. IMHO BD has entirely abandoned the musical side of the activity and arranged an effect sound track. There's coordination of the music with each set but there's no continuity of musical thought from set to set *or* from piece to piece when viewed as whole. Effect soundtracks are an important component of movie soundtracks but there's a lot *more* to a great soundtrack than just effects.

And if you think it's a "few folks on DCP" that feel this way, you're sadly mistaken.

Perfectly stated. I miss the days when you could LISTEN to Drum Corps and not feel like something was missing. Music has taken a back seat to visual; why do they have to be mutually exclusive? Why can't a musically entertaining show be visually entertaining as well? Why don't the top corps design a visual package AROUND the music and not vice versa? Is it because that's what the judges want to see?

Maybe we need different judges.

[Plan9]

And that's exactly the point that I was trying to make, thank you very much. I never said any of the opinions and negative stuff that BD has been hit with in the past was true at all, if you look closely, I never said this any of it was fact, it's just what's out there. I am a BD fan, not a fan of their more recent work, but I still love them for everything that they do year in and year out. But until they stop being labelled with generally inaccurate stereotypes about who they are and what they do, the hate on here will continue. And I applaud the BD fans and alumni for standing up for their corps through thick and thin, it really shows how much loyalty there is for the organization, especially in an era when corps loyalty is dropping fast. Thank you for standing by your corps.

Well ####! I am without speech!

By the way, my formerly bone playing (now Euph playing) son may end up at FSU...but he's a free spirit!

[Tuba1919]

I blame the Cavaliers.......when the drill became more important than the music, the musical books changed around the activity. By the way, I'm not hating on the Cavies, but I really feel they started us down this path with the visual being more important than the music.

[Patrick McNeal]

The issue being debated originally started out because some fans claim that when people do not like BD's shows, it's because "they win all the time."

At what point will it become about the program being presented on the field?

I don't care that they win all the time. It IS about the program on the field; the problem for me is, that's the only place it works now. Listening to CDs in the car just isn't the same as it used to be. It's like listening to a movie soundtrack--there are high points, sure, but without the visual, it can get a bit dull.

The BD organization is fantastic. The brass ensemble technique is frankly amazing. I just don't understand why the need to alienate fans. Oh, sure, I get that Wayne Downey has the opinion that "everything" has been done already and he's bored (paraphrased from a recording of a meeting I heard a few years ago). Maybe it's time for a new arranger. He does brilliant work with the brass, so let him focus on that.

[Plan9]

Perfectly stated. I miss the days when you could LISTEN to Drum Corps and not feel like something was missing. Music has taken a back seat to visual; why do they have to be mutually exclusive? Why can't a musically entertaining show be visually entertaining as well? Why don't the top corps design a visual package AROUND the music and not vice versa? Is it because that's what the judges want to see?

Maybe we need different judges.

Or you might say..why don't the corps just below the "top corps" do what you suggest..then they'd be top corps correct? OH, that's right...those judges!

[Patrick McNeal]

????

Do you really think people will stop going to shows becausethey do not like ONE of the ELEVEN corps that were there???? Really???

They already have. Not due to one corps in particular, but the general inaccessibility of the shows. I've been trying to get my wife interested in drum corps for years, but she just doesn't understand the appeal as the music is not appealing to her. And last night's shows didn't make it any easier.

[megadrive]

Geez, this thread has derailed big time. Unfortunately I'm about to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution (which would be to not post in it). I'm only human after all. Also, as a disclaimer, I have yet to see the 2010 show (either live or on FN), so keep that in mind when reading my comments.

Anyway, the Blue Devils are freaking awesome. They march better than anybody in the activity, and they've been doing it for years. During the recent Cavalier reign I was always amazed at how bad their technique looked up close, yet somehow they kept getting the numbers. Sure, their 30 inch sleevebags squared up real nice and helped them look great from above, but goodness was the individual technique messy. BD on the other hand, always incredible (Cadets too). I mean wow, they certainly can't be packed with vets year after year. Some years they have to be rocking rookies, and I wouldn't be able to tell you which years those are. They are just really, really amazing at marching. Props to the staff.

As for the disjointed music... well, that's real. I still love BD for their technical excellence (playing as well, holy ####), but their arrangements leave a lot to be desired in my opinion. And BD people, before you crucify me remember -- I'm a fan. BD is so good at what they do that they make it look easy, and some people aren't experienced enough to see that. I see it and am impressed beyond belief. But yeah, I really wish the arrangements were better. Don't get me wrong, they always have a few good melodies (especially last year), but there's also a great deal of "barky" music that sometimes overpowers the melodious parts (although, the same could be said for the first half of PR '08 and no one seems to complain about that). Don't get me wrong, I don't want 12+ minutes of beautiful melodies, but I could do with a few less chops. Again, they are amazingly skilled and I do enjoy the music, I would just enjoy it a lot more if they switched their style up a bit.

Anyway, my point with this is that not all people are just hating on BD because they win. I think BD would do well to pull a HNC and put together a more audience friendly (and not BD fan exclusive friendly) show next year. It's not like they couldn't pull it off, let's be real here. They would still be amazing and would still probably win, lol.

I guess that's all I got. BD owns my face but they would own it a lot more if they rocked a more "ipod-worthy" brass book.

EDIT: Suck at spellign

EDIT2: Suck at typign too

This, this, this, a thousand times this.

There is no doubt in my mind that BD deserves all the accolades they receive. Last year they definitely deserved the title above Crown, imo. Crown may have been the more popular show, but watching BD live left no doubt. 2010 seems more of the same. They seem more talented this year, and the show seems better designed. I'm not a fan, but that's irrevelant. I guess other people are fans, so they can enjoy that show while I enjoy SCV, Crown, Cadets, Cavies (seriously, I like the Cavies this year. This is an awesome year of drum corps) etc. etc. etc.

Oh, and I'm working on my music ed degree. Don't know if that validates my opinion or not.