The OFFICIAL 2010 Blue Devils Thread

[corpsband]

As someone who has had plenty of fun conversations in show threads I have to say this is "hooie". I know that you have a kid in Crown and want them to win a championship. As for me i have no relation to anyone in either corps so i watched as an unbiased fan and last year BDs music was great their visual was great and ####### clean. That show deserved the championship. It wasnt what the fans thought (who are they to choose when DCI pays for judges with many degrees in music stuff) but in the end the better group won. This show made more sense and was just more entertaining to me IMO. When I think of the shows from finals this one is the one i remember the most. Now that we are in another year people will be going after BD again because their design team is putting stuff out there that will win but some fans wont like. Gutsy move yes but at the end of the season what do people remember? who won or who was entertaining?

I know everyone finds this impossible to believe but this has nothing at all do with Crown. FWIW me (and my kid) love BD! (although I'm sure she would never admit that now :) I'm a fan of drum corps who happens to have a kid marching right now. And until this arranging style became so extreme at BD, I was a *huge* fan of BD -- that got me in many an argument with people about effect. I would say "but LOOK" at what they're doing, "but LISTEN" to that hornline. And they would say -- meh...

So I'm sorry to disappoint all you fanboys who'd like to pigeon-hole me because I happen to have a kid in Crown (and of course I'd like them to win). I *loved* SCVs show last year even though they were moving up quickly at the end and were a potential threat to Crown. You guys may not like it but I'm not coming at this as a honk.

Edited June 27, 2010 by corpsband

[BRASSO]

Off the field? Change the subject?

They were booed at shows.

Holy Siegfried and Roy..........

Yes... the Corps was received better in earlier years.

Also, I thought Phantom Regiment might have caught 93 Star on Finals Night there in 93. And the judges agreed. Phantom was 3 points behind Star of Indiana in the Quarters.. but had slashed that in half..to a point by Finals. I enjoy 93 Phantom Regiment every bit as much as 93 Star of Indiana. Phantom Regiment got a better hand than did Star of Indiana did at Finals there in 1993 too.... and nobody there cared how much money you had in your treasury when they reacted to the shows there either. ( same as today in that respect too )

Edited June 27, 2010 by BRASSO

[byline]

Did you see Star in 1992? I guess not.

Did you hear the crowd when Cadets beat them at finals? I guess not.

OK, I think we're talking about two different things here: competitive vitriol and aesthetic appreciation. In '92, audiences generally seemed to enjoy Star's program and, if not overwhelmingly enthusiastic, were receptive to the show, itself. But -- fairly or not -- Star was saddled throughout their relatively brief competitive reign with a perception that they had not sufficiently "paid their dues" to get to the top of the heap. I think this was coming to a head in '92, perhaps as a direct result of winning it all in '91. So yes, when Cavaliers won in '92, there was a fair bit of gloating that was outwardly expressed. But I don't think that meant the audience didn't like Star's show that year (or that it was unlikable; probably if performed by any other corps, it would have been hugely popular). I think most people liked the show, but were irrationally annoyed -- again, I'm not saying this is fair or even accurate -- by what they perceived as Star's "silver platter" success.

In '93, the show seemed deliberately designed to elicit an angry response (perhaps as retribution for having a fan-friendly show the previous year that, for whatever reason, didn't win over the fans). But that was a process of choosing music not accessible to the general audience, and then designing the show in such a way that didn't allow the usual opportunities for audience reaction. And that's when the anger really bubbled to the surface. It was like Star was giving the audience an excuse to vent . . . and vent they did. (I was the odd one out at the time, thinking this was the first Star show that I'd actually liked.) But it was that same design process that enables people now to see how brilliant it was.

I think the difference between Star '93 and BD in the last several years -- and this addresses the point I assume you're trying to make -- is that BD is taking accessible music and arranging it in such a way that it sounds inaccessible to the general audience. Star took inaccessible music and arranged it accordingly, so that the visual design perfectly mirrored the music being played. In BD's case, I feel like the visual design is driving the musical editing. And, of course, that's always been a function of drum corps. Music has to be edited to fit the constraints of drill and time limits. But, as much as I admire the overall package, BD takes it to an extreme that I'm not entirely comfortable with.

Edited July 3, 2010 by byline

[corpsband]

And again, this is your opinion. You manufacture some kind of mass dislike for their music, trot out a few folks on DCP and call it a ground swell. The fact that they win is irrelivant to the popularity of the corps. They simply are amazing designers and Wayne Downey is in a class of his own. And no manner of your dislike for the present or recent past music, your effort to minimize their creativity or general criticism of their production will change the course of things....yet another thrilling and entertaining BD show.

Plan I'm not feeling the Go-G7-4 love :)

I didn't disparage the designers (in fact I praised them). Didn't disparage their musical selections either. It's the arrangement I take issue with. IMHO BD has entirely abandoned the musical side of the activity and arranged an effect sound track. There's coordination of the music with each set but there's no continuity of musical thought from set to set *or* from piece to piece when viewed as whole. Effect soundtracks are an important component of movie soundtracks but there's a lot *more* to a great soundtrack than just effects.

And if you think it's a "few folks on DCP" that feel this way, you're sadly mistaken.

[Lincoln]

I think the difference between Star '93 and BD in the last several years -- and this addresses the point I assume you're trying to make -- is that BD is taking accessible music and arranging in in such a way that it sounds inaccessible to the general audience. Star took inaccessible music and arranged it accordingly, so that the visual design perfectly mirrored the music being played. In BD's case, I feel like the visual design is driving the musical editing. And, of course, that's always been a function of drum corps. Music has to be edited to fit the constraints of drill and time limits. But for me, as much as I admire the overall package, BD takes it to an extreme that I'm not entirely comfortable with.

The issue being debated originally started out because some fans claim that when people do not like BD's shows, it's because "they win all the time."

At what point will it become about the program being presented on the field?

[tja273]

There's the problem. There's not going to be an industry if people don't go to shows. If enough fans stop going because they feel it offers nothing for them, the only people attending shows will be judges and family, and I'm willing to bet most family members don't "get" the shows, either, but they support what their kids are doing (as they should, of course).

????

Do you really think people will stop going to shows becausethey do not like ONE of the ELEVEN corps that were there???? Really???

I won't say I loved every corps at Stanford last night, but I was certainly entertained.

[I play the baritone good]

Geez, this thread has derailed big time. Unfortunately I'm about to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution (which would be to not post in it). I'm only human after all. Also, as a disclaimer, I have yet to see the 2010 show (either live or on FN), so keep that in mind when reading my comments.

Anyway, the Blue Devils are freaking awesome. They march better than anybody in the activity, and they've been doing it for years. During the recent Cavalier reign I was always amazed at how bad their technique looked up close, yet somehow they kept getting the numbers. Sure, their 30 inch sleevebags squared up real nice and helped them look great from above, but goodness was the individual technique messy. BD on the other hand, always incredible (Cadets too). I mean wow, they certainly can't be packed with vets year after year. Some years they have to be rocking rookies, and I wouldn't be able to tell you which years those are. They are just really, really amazing at marching. Props to the staff.

As for the disjointed music... well, that's real. I still love BD for their technical excellence (playing as well, holy ####), but their arrangements leave a lot to be desired in my opinion. And BD people, before you crucify me remember -- I'm a fan. BD is so good at what they do that they make it look easy, and some people aren't experienced enough to see that. I see it and am impressed beyond belief. But yeah, I really wish the arrangements were better. Don't get me wrong, they always have a few good melodies (especially last year), but there's also a great deal of "barky" music that sometimes overpowers the melodious parts (although, the same could be said for the first half of PR '08 and no one seems to complain about that). Don't get me wrong (2), I don't want 12+ minutes of beautiful melodies, but I could do with a few less chops. Again, they are amazingly skilled and I do enjoy the music, I would just enjoy it a lot more if they switched their style up a bit.

Anyway, my point with this is that not all people are just hating on BD because they win. I think BD would do well to pull a HNC and put together a more audience friendly (and not BD fan exclusive friendly) show next year. It's not like they couldn't pull it off, let's be real here. They would still be amazing and would probably still win, lol.

I guess that's all I got. BD owns my face but they would own it a lot more if they rocked a more "ipod-worthy" brass book.

EDIT: Suck at spellign

EDIT2: Suck at typign too

Edited June 27, 2010 by I play the baritone good

[byline]

The issue being debated originally started out because some fans claim that when people do not like BD's shows, it's because "they win all the time."

At what point will it become about the program being presented on the field?

Probably when they stop winning. I'm serious about that. Look through the history of corps that have won, and the same pattern is repeated over and over again. People find all sorts of reasons to undermine the corps that won . . . especially when said corps starts to dominate the scene, much as BD has done over the years. But bear in mind that it also happened to Santa Clara in their heyday, and Garfield/Cadets/whatever-name-they're-going-by in theirs. Star was an anomaly because of their fleeting existence, and also what seemed to be something of a f--- you final salute. But that was deliberate, and I'm not sure that the reaction BD is eliciting with its music is necessarily deliberate. *shrug*

[crfrey71]

Plan I'm not feeling the Go-G7-4 love :)

I didn't disparage the designers (in fact I praised them). Didn't disparage their musical selections either. It's the arrangement I take issue with. IMHO BD has entirely abandoned the musical side of the activity and arranged an effect sound track. There's coordination of the music with each set but there's no continuity of musical thought from set to set *or* from piece to piece when viewed as whole. Effect soundtracks are an important component of movie soundtracks but there's a lot *more* to a great soundtrack than just effects.

And if you think it's a "few folks on DCP" that feel this way, you're sadly mistaken.

That is a really great analogy, in regards to an effect soundtrack. I totally agree with your statement, in regards to an effect soundtrack.

[ohwiseone]

This thread got way off track and is now a shooting gallery, with two very distinct sides in the arguments. (It's funny i think we go through this every single year). But I am going to add my 2 Cents.

Okay First off the person who used bland and boring with Mahler in the same sentence, needs to seriously sit and listen to some of his work, If your not emotionally into it by the end of his 2nd symphony or 8th symphony, then i need to hear some of the stuff you like.

Now onto my opinion

I loved the Blue Devils, I think I am one of the few who loved their 07 show. I love love love love there 2004 show. Then the 09 show came, and I did not watch the show until San Antonio and at that point (IMO) when they started the "Chop-arranging". I don't hate BD, I just dislike their path they are going down. I give respect To the Tech's and Staff out with them, and make them be Precise as hell and making them look as close as perfect as they can be, and If BD goes back to they were in 04, then I think they will have a Ton of Fan's back and even more that see them for the first time, But until they change, I'll watch the shows and be amazed at how perfect they are, and how clean they play, But I won't put it on my Ipod.

Edited: I suck at Spelling, and i just woke up, and NO I don't wanna edit it

Edited June 27, 2010 by ohwiseone