Pioneer vs. ?

[PioneerLeadSop]

IMO Pioneer's lost opportunity was in the early/mid 90's when they were close to a full 128 membership, playing their ayusses off and killing everyone in DivII. No one was even close to competing with them in Div II back then (most divII corps were still maxing out at around 90 members) and THIS is when the could have made some serious noise in what was then Div I and been competitive enough to conceivably make a push upwards. Now they have a reputation as the last place corps. There is no denying it, and that in and of itself will be a huge obstacle to overcome from competitive standpoint.

A lot of people forget in 99 we lost a lot of membership to Southwind. That really took a toll on us.

[gimpy]

I've always looked upon Pioneer as being quaint, they remind me of a bygone drum corps era.

The ability to evolve without losing their identity seems to be what they're missing.... imo. Perhaps it's time to let the whole Irish thing take a back seat and take a risk or two.... never forget where you came from but don't let where you came from hold you back.

Check them out this year if you can, their music will surprise you.

edit: I also want to add that people shouldn't write Pioneer off as a last-placer again this year. They didn't come in last in 09, and at their last show there was only a 1.6 point spread between them and Teal. I think there could be a helluva fight between 18-23 this year.

Edited July 9, 2010 by gimpy

[3rd&10]

Saw this one coming a mile away all Winter. Corps brass guy goes public with the intended development of the brass program. He has a good rep in the activity and everyone appreciates his honesty. Meanwhile nothing is done to improve visual or guard issues that have plagued the corps for years. Comes back to bite them right in the shamrock.

It is not all about the horn line. Many corps have learned the lesson the hard way. Time will tell if Pioneer will spend more time, effort & resources on the visual & guard programs......

[Ed from Kansas]

With Pioneer, I think the key word is mission. As mentioned earlier, they are a teaching corps and from what I have seen, that is where they want to be. Every kid in that corps wants to make semi-finals and they work their butts off to do it. It may or may not happen this year. If not this year, maybe next year. Consider this, they have kids from Africa that can't read music very well, kids from Mexico that don't speak English, kids from Japan that speak very little English plus a kid from England and another from Austria.

I have heard them say in their camps. If you get cut on the instrument of your choice but still want to march, we will find a place for you in the corps. With Pioneer, attitude and desire are more important than anything else. They give every kid that really wants to march a chance and if he works hard and maintains a great attitude, he will have a place in the corps next year. Maybe, in many ways, this is not how to run a modern drum corps, but it is the Pioneer way and they have fielded a corps every year for 49 years.

My son started marching with Pioneer when he was 14 years old. This is his second year. No one else in world class would give him a chance. Level of talent didn't mean anything to the other corps. He was told by more than one corps that year to go get two to three years experience somewhere else, then come back and talk with them. Rather than march open class, he went to Pioneer and has had the greatest experience of his life.

In summary, with Pioneer winning is not the most important thing. Teaching the kids how to play, march and develop their character is what they do best and I, for one, am thankful that there is someone like Pioneer out there for the kids. I think that Roman has put together a pretty good staff in the past couple of years and they are all on the same page.

We parents of Pioneer kids don't expect them to beat the Blue Devils or the Cavaliers. We expect them to do the absolute best they can every day, and the staff of Pioneer helps them do it.

Still think they can finish 18th this year and maybe challenge for semi-finals. If not, they made a tremendous improvement and we will continue to be very proud of them

[PioneerWebmaster]

I just wanted to point out that several people referred to the mid-90's as the more successful years for the corps, and by all means those years were successful. But what most people don't realize that in the mid 90's the corps used to practice in a Boys and Girls club on the south side of Milwaukee and would literally take just about anyone who came in there and wanted make something better of themselves and find a place for them in the corps. We won three championships following that philosophy. It wasn't until after those championships that we started to attract members from outside the Milwaukee area on a large scale level. The corps has continued to attract most of its members from outside Milwaukee ever since. Yes, we still recruit locally from time to time, but the focus is definitely on recruiting at a national level. Hence the holding of audition camps in several locations this past year. But one thing is still the same... Pioneer will take almost anyone in and find them a place in the corps if they want to better themselves. It's not necessarily about winning, but as 1991, 1994, and 1995 prove... sometimes you string things together right and the chips fall on your side!

Edited July 9, 2010 by PioneerWebmaster

[Ed from Kansas]

Well said.

[PeeJay]

IMO Pioneer's lost opportunity was in the early/mid 90's when they were close to a full 128 membership, playing their ayusses off and killing everyone in DivII. No one was even close to competing with them in Div II back then (most divII corps were still maxing out at around 90 members) and THIS is when the could have made some serious noise in what was then Div I and been competitive enough to conceivably make a push upwards. Now they have a reputation as the last place corps. There is no denying it, and that in and of itself will be a huge obstacle to overcome from competitive standpoint.

This is not entirely true. In 1995 we were beating the crap out of many Division I corps while winning Division II for the second time in a row.

In 1996 we were still undefeated and came into DCI week on top of Division II and 14th in Division I. However we lost the title by 0,2 and were 20th in the end in Division I. We then made the push forward in 1997 (19th), 1998 (18th), 1999 (17th) and 2000 (16th).

I do agree on the reputation but Pioneer is still the organization that takes care of those that might not ever have marched if it weren't for a organization as open as Pioneer. Now I feel this is more a task for the Open Class corps. But let's be honest......compare the now Open Class to the then Division II/III and more on an educational basis......

Pioneer made a choice and will need to make slow steps to fight with the big boys. In my humble opinion they have found that path this season.....it will take a lot of time, hard choices and debate....

[Blackstar]

I don't know if anyone else wrote this but if I had a choice between Pioneer moving up into the top 12 and staying where they are and letting the same type of kids march I vote stay.

Too many KIDS have been pushed out of drum corps. This is really an adult activity at the upper level. By adult I mean you can vote and drink and should be working. Yes I know SOME high school march top 12 but I'm also sure the ratio is very low. Even back when I marched in 84 we had maybe 3 HS'ers out of 30 in the drum line.

While I would love to see them win more I love what they do more. To me they embody what a youth activity should be!

[tommytimp]

Pioneer play Irish music because the original entity was known as the Imperials of St. Patrick's. He had something to do with Ireland, if I recall. They were funded for a long time by Pioneer Container Co. I'd rather hear irish music than songs about containers. But if Pio want to break from their tradition and play the same faceless, boring, fin-de-siecle band music judges want every other corps to play, I guess that'd be OK, too.

It's pretty obvious that Pioneer's goal is not to get into the top 12. Once upon a time it could have been, and as a casual observer at one point I thought they were going to be the new kid on the block, but it never happened. So they re-focused their mission,and it seems like now they're almost a marching version of the Boys and girls Clubs--getting kids into something that gives them a sense of worth, belonging, and importance, as well as educating them. Sounds good to me. I might not want to pay to see fifty of them either, but I wouldn't mind seeing more than one corps with that mission.

[Musicman1084]

I do agree on the reputation but Pioneer is still the organization that takes care of those that might not ever have marched if it weren't for a organization as open as Pioneer. Now I feel this is more a task for the Open Class corps. But let's be honest......

This is what I've sort of never understood. I've always felt that their willingness to educate from scratch was admirable, but feel that it doesn't coincide with the typical image associated with World Class corps. This type of mentality has always been synonymous with feeder corps, which, loyal members aside, may present a stigma as such for members who solely wish to get a year of experience before moving on. Whatever means necessary for them to survive as a corps (both financially AND in membership) is most important, but I just can't help but wonder how far they'll eventually get if they continue to recruit kids with no musical or marching experience whatsoever, as is claimed. Will potential members with actual experience and talent shy away from the corps knowing that they'll be marching with 10+% of the corps having no experience? It's not really a knock, but a legitimate question/concern.