Why Blue Devils Win

[perc2100]

For my part, I would have no problem with BD winning if I actually enjoyed their show.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the crux of the problem with many drum corps fans: "I don't enjoy the show, so I think it shouldn't win" (excuse the paraphrase). There is a divide as wide and as deep as the Grand Canyon between "enjoying the show" and maximizing execution of a show that is expertly design to maximize effect.

Just because you don't personally like a show, or find it boring, or it doesn't engage you in a way that makes you want to jump up and applause, does not mean that a show is performed near-perfection and is designed to maximize effect on the sheets. Chad, I know that you also said in your post,

I have never denied their excellence. It is unparalleled.

But it's undeniable that the past three seasons Blue Devils have done an incredible job not only designing a Championship show: one that is designed to max out the rep sub-captions and the effect captions from a design stand point. They have also performed those shows at or near a Championship caliber (even in 2008 when Phantom outperformed them and won the title, Blue Devils very likely would've won with a better percussion performance). It doesn't seem logically to criticize Blue Devils for performing expertly as well as designing shows meant to maximize points on the sheets.

So in that case, who should people blame? Blue Devil's design trends are at the very least on par with DCI and the top BOA (and other top band circuits, such as the CA WBA circuit that James Logan competes in) and WGI organizations. You can't really expect top level drum corps to scale back their ideas when they're working with some of the top marching members of the activity (i.e. Blue Devils, Cadets, Cavaliers, Crown, Bluecoats, SCV, etc. wisely push the boundaries of design because they want to utilize the high talent of membership they retain).

Personally, I think if you want to blame anyone/anything, blame Jim Jones, David Kampschroer, Gail Royer, Don Warren and Bill Howard for starting DCI. The set the tone in 1971 when the broke off from the VFW circuits because of (among many other reasons) stringent design limitations. Those gentlemen, with their yearning for more, and the desire to push themselves and their drum corps colleagues to do more from a design standpoint (again, among other things), caused them to completely start a brand new organization free of limitations. They wanted an organization where the actual corps directors dictated the design directions of the activity, and they wanted an organization that would be free to mold the rules to meet their design needs.

Of course, I don't blame anyone. Over the course of human history MANY artists were derided during their time, and only after decades and sometimes centuries of scholars studying and analyzing their work was it fully understood. Obviously Blue Devils are nothing close to Mozart, but they truly are innovators of their genre whether EVERYONE personally likes them or not (and I have NEVER attended a drum corps show where BD wasn't given much love: perhaps not the favorites, but wildly respected and enjoyed by the masses).

[perc2100]

I think the problem here is that this is what you asked....a bunch of times...

Do you think its fair to say that the 2009 final performances of BDs show did not emotionally engage the audience to the same degree as the performances of the Cadets and Crown?

Matt is saying, I think, that the phrase "emotionally engage" is impossible to ascertain over the entire audience, because emotions are hard to pin down, as he said in his post.

In this post you said "Even if..."; you probably should say "ONLY if..." in order to get the answer you seem to be looking for.

The big applause moment is one of many types of audience reactions/connections the designers may be looking for. Some are visceral; some are more internalized. None of them are better than the others; they are just different ways to appreciate a show.

This is a great point. If something drives someone to such emotion that they want to run out and proclaim to the world (internet) that they dislike it, it is by definition emotionally engaging, arguably more so than the performances of Cadets and Crown. Many artists will argue that it is MUCH easier to do things the audience will love, but it's harder to engage them on a deeper level to make them examine what it is they DISLIKE about something.

[corpsband]

The big applause moment is one of many types of audience reactions/connections the designers may be looking for. Some are visceral; some are more internalized. None of them are better than the others; they are just different ways to appreciate a show.

This is marching band on a football field. Invariably the reaction you're looking for from an audience is applause. The root cause of the applause (though provoking , sad, happy, funny ) doesn't really matter. Even if the ending is "down" you might get the long awkward silence but if you connected with your audience, you'll get enthusiastic applause.

As I said in earlier posts, regardless of whether I can analyze the emotion or not, as a member of an audience it's always been clear to me if a performance successfully communicates / connects with the audience or not. I don't *have* to tell you what emotion was evoked -- if you evoked emotion and connected with your audience, they will appreciate you.

I still contend BD has just cut out the emotional component from their designed effect (I'm not speaking necessarily about this season -- haven't seen the show live and will wait 'til I do). And I suspect that (as several posters here have postulated ) the reason that emotional vacuum exists is the nature of the musical arrangement. Sure my contention is just opinion but the audience reaction is tangible.

Edited July 15, 2010 by corpsband

[chaddyt]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the crux of the problem with many drum corps fans: "I don't enjoy the show, so I think it shouldn't win" (excuse the paraphrase). There is a divide as wide and as deep as the Grand Canyon between "enjoying the show" and maximizing execution of a show that is expertly design to maximize effect.

There are shows that have won that I haven't entirely enjoyed. Doesn't mean I don't think they should've taken the title. I'm aware of the level of execution that these corps performed at and understand that a show I may have liked better fell short in taking the title. I am fine with that.

And while I get that BD's job isn't to design to my tastes, I'll be honest when I say I don't see the demand the judges see. (Obviously, we're not going to get into the whole credentials thing again.) I get the curvilinears, the exposed solos, etc. But there are multiple sections in this show where the entire brass is just flat out not playing for sometimes almost a minute straight. I don't see the demand in that.

Maybe I need more viewings. Maybe I'm just an ignorant fan who needs schooled on the awesomeness BD. I don't know.

I DO know that I'd like to like their shows.

Edited July 15, 2010 by chaddyt

[Jeff Ream]

Well at least you acknowledged the question (even if you still failed to answer it :)

I really don't understand the difficulty in answering it. Even if you limit your observation to an applause-o-meter it was pretty easy to assess that the answer to the original question is yes.

There's no doubt that there were a lot of reasons that Phantom had that connection and I would agree with you the connection was complex; it wasn't just the music.

IMHO music is the fundamental emotional driver to drum corps shows. While we can appreciate the aesthetic and intellectual effects in the absence of music, I contend that there's a visceral connection between human beings and music. It effects us directly without any need for analysis or thought.

I think what's going with BD's recent offerings is an abandonment of the emotional leg of effect. They write the book appealing primarily to the intellectual and aesthetic senses. The musical phrases may line up to a visual effect , but the lack of musical development across visual effect boundaries short-circuits the audience's ability to connect with the show.

This is all my opinion of course but it sure explains to me why *so many* people are left "flat" by recent productions. I appreciate the excellence; the visual effects evoke admiration. But because of the fragmented arrangements, there's little emotional connection. And I claim you *can* see it -- you can see the people sitting on their hands, you can hear golf claps, you can even see it in the reluctance of people to stand at the end of the show. And yes you can hear boos. There are a wide variety of shows that audience don't particularly like. But those shows don't elicit a boo from the audience. Why is that? Because audiences everywhere just hate BD? Sorry I'm not buying that. They boo because the show did not connect emotionally; if the show is just an intellectual and aesthetic exercise without emotionally engaging music, the audience won't *get* it -- regardless of how it reads on the sheets.

Sure there are BD haters out there. I don't deny it. But IMHO they're a small minority at a show. Most people -- even if they have favorites -- are more than willing to jump out of their seats if a performance *makes* them do it. Heck I did it for Bluecoats this year and I'm not really a Bluecoat fan -- and as a Crown honk I should be pre-disposed to *NOT* jump up and applaud. But guess what -- their performance *made* me get up (during the show *and* at the end). Was the effect all generated by music? Absolutely not. But their music kept me involved, it not only supported the visual but enhanced it. It manipulated me through effective arrangement.

So I think you're wrong -- I think Bob (and many other's) are onto something.

for the win

[Jeff Ream]

there is also a group for the cavaliers and cadets, and Star had one. Biggest reason isn't just the on field product, tho it helped. Cadets..well, that's Hop. easy to figure out. Star was the supposed $$$. Cavies I never really understood other than winning and the boring music they did for a few years.

But there are many people who love many corps over the years, and we're seeing some really passionate BD fans from years past ( including me) speaking out about recent productions. We're not haters...we want BD to blow us away.

Honestly, I feel like while they perform the snot out of everything, they ARE getting gifts in the "what" boxes on the sheets musically ( maybe not percussion, but the others for sure).

as corpsband said, there IS a connection between people and music, and the last few years BD has lost that connection to many. You call it "hating" I and many others call it reality.

and that's the issue. BD honks are so passionate about their team, that anyone who speaks up gets labeled a hater just as anyone who avidly defended the Cadets was called the borg. In fact, I sit here laughing at more than a few BD honks on here making the borg jokes.

maybe they need to look in the mirror.

I'm no Hop fan, but it seems the last two years he realized something.....pleasing the fans is a good thing...and hey, ya know, it helps bring in some money for the team.

signed,

a guy who didnt make a noise when Coats got the 87 and has several BD tshirts and dvd's and cd's...but none recently

There really is no changing anyone's mind on this. But IMHO, there's a population of drum corps fans that have a psycological tick when it comes to BD. Ignore it and call it something having to do with their show if you like, but it's about their winning ways and the fact that some fans are wanting a change. Unfortunately, they also know it won't happen unless BD fails to bring a championship show...and they just keep on delivering. I'm sure it makes you angry and disappointed, but those BD members are not trying to make you upset, they're doing exactly what CC, Cadets, et al are doing....their best.

So continue to search for that "weakness du jour" your looking for and pile on (on DCP), it happens every year. Just do a DCP thread count concerning BD as the subject since 07...people want to talk about winners (it's our nature)..... "why does BD win"; "Mom always liked them best"; "how come BD sucks and keeps on winning"; "are they aliens?", on and on.

BD scores an 88 on Saturday and people are apoplectic and threatening to storm the DCI Hqs and burn the judges at the stake. 3 days later Bluecoats score .7 less and there is a veritable purrrrrrr across DCP. It's so transparent, and the usual suspects on DCP are laughable with their poorly disguised un-well wishing for BD. So...I'm saying (like Dom Corleon would say... "Acta likea Man!")...just say it, "BD's excellent, their show is worthy of a DCI championship....again, but I want someone else to win (anyone else!). Just do it...you'll feel cleaner!

[Jeff Ream]

Probably because what the corps play is demanding.

and more than a few disagree there too.

[luvah]

I think the initial poster has a point, they do perform and they do have an attitude--a swagger in performance. (but look at all the shows from 2009, and tell me BD doesn't have a huge edge in ensemble visual over everyone else)-- and that's where they won on the sheets too. Ensemble visual. Not only did they have a horn line you couldn't say anybody was more than .1 better, and a drum line you couldn't say anybody was more mature--they smoked everybody in ensemble visual. IE visual design.-- executing the forms as seen from the top of the stadium. That's where they won in '09, maybe they just understand the sheets better than the competition.

[Big Bad Bari]

There are many who feel "no connection" to BD and I get that... I took a long break from the activity and when I came back in 2006 I was really upset at what I saw. The music was written to make the drill work instead of the other way around? Corps were playing whole notes and thats all? Other changes bothered me too but I couldn't deny that those kids moved like I never did or could!

Was it 2007 where BD did "Winged Victory"? I really felt disconnected from that show as well... BUT...

The 2009 Show 1930 Delivered enough Jazz for this old coot to love the show! Loved the corps and watch with intent as they moved through the obsticles (chairs) with ease and grace!

This years show delivers the same to me as last year... Give em a couple more watches...

[dcsnare93]

To claim that the Blue Devils' shows do not have an emotional connection with the audience is just pure nonsense. People behave in certain ways as a direct result of their emotional state, which may be applauding, jumping up and down, crying, booing, remaining silent, etc. Perhaps their shows are not eliciting the type of emotional connection that you want from a drum corps performance, fair enough.

People are passionate about their beliefs and opinions, period. Labeling someone as a "hater" or "honk" doesn't add any weight to one's opinion or argument. All it shows is as a lack of objectivity.

Edited July 15, 2010 by dcsnare93