MikeD Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Standing O's aren't really the culture anymore, though. Once upon a time there was a nice long gap between each number, giving fans plenty of time to stand up and cheer. Now the shows are created as one product and designed to carry momentum throughout. DCI events are as much concerts as they are sporting events. I think there have been moments in every contest I've attended where I have wanted to stand up or cheer, but I felt it would be rude to the people around me. Even if I'm totally jazzed by a show, I rarely stand up before the finish (Phantom 2008 comes to mind as an exception, everyone was standing from the moment Will Pitts was "speared" to the end). I think this is actually a perfect example of things being neither better nor worse, just different. I have seen the Haas videos of many of the finalists at the 1971 World Open. I've seen that called one of the greatest shows of all time in some of the postings here and in RAMD. Well, you get a very nice view of the crowd throughout, and standing O's were just not the norm even then...actually pretty close to what you describe above. Even the 27th Lancers got the same sort of reaction, in their own back yard. Blue Rock, SCV, Garfield, Troopers, etc... I think there are a lot of rose colored memories about the past floating around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 If kids marching today came on here and bashed stuff from the early 90s like this, it would be interesting to see the reactions. They don't, and it's not because they often don't find the stuff from 2 decades ago to be un-entertaining. Most are respectful of those who came before them even if they don't find the shows invigorating. They don't because they weren't there. There's no way for them to know what it was like if they never saw it live. You are really starting to reach. I marched in the 90s, but I had tapes of all the shows from '72-'90 when I was growing up and had a healthy respect for the shows that came before me. It was great to see the progression and evolution and see the differences on what corps achieved and just how difficult it is for drum corps in every generation. It gave me a healthy perspective....never once felt I needed to bash the activity. I am not bashing the members (as you continually seem to insinuate). I'm bashing the direction that the activity as a whole is taking. What don't you understand about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 And I would suggest you check the finals videos in '05 (Cadets), '07 (Bluecoats), and especially Phantom ('08). I would also point out to you, concerning the Dublin show Tuesday night...it was a record attendance and I would bet that the great MAJORITY of folks attending were NOT attending their first drum corps show. They new what they were coming to see. Don't need to, I was there (except for '08). None of those years come remotely close to the fan reactions to the shows 1-17 in '88. Sorry..... DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 Since the average WC performer is a 19 year old college music major, I'd much rather have them on their "native" brass instrument. (It's true - go look it up. Not you, Lance, but the general "you.") And I still maintain the loudest corps moment I've ever experienced was the 2001 Blue Devils (on Bb's) - the end of I've Got Rhythm was so loud all you could hear was the distortion - literally.Mike No chance.....I can name at least 20 shows that had bigger impacts (and not meaning just volume, but actual musical impacts) than '01 Devs. DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcbari Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I voted years ago. I have not attended a show since 2004. Why bother? The shows are just WGI shows expanded and with live music. At best,they are BOA shows done very well. If I want to see excellence in those realms, I can attend their shows. The kids marching now are better trained and better prepared to produce their product than ever, but I no longer care about the product. As I tell my students: "Art started in the heart, not the head." When crowds no longer react from emotion, but rather from intellectual appreciation, I feel we have lost something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93Bluecoat Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 Although many of my issues are with the direction of the activity (I'm fine with a lot of the music choices, really....), I just think the product isn't very good. This has nothing to do with "the way it used to be" or "good art vs. bad art"...because like you mentioned, that argument is arbitrary and up to the individual. This is a consumerism issue. There is NO WAY anyone could argue that the shows in 2010 generate anywhere close to the level of excitement that shows 10, 15, or 20 years ago did (heck, lets bo back to '68 Royal Airs). I wish there was a way to measure this but there's not. I'm incredibly passionate about DCI, always have been but I (as well as many that have commented in this rant, as well as MANY MANY fans I have spoken with at shows) feel the current product DCI shoves down our throats just isn't very good. I keep using the word 'aesthetic' but no one seems to be understanding what that means. The shows definitely lack the connection of humanism to music. The connection from performer to audience....its not there. Once again (I've mentioned this now several times), DCI has no business hiding behind the veil of education (music education specifically). Drum corps inherently teaches you many life lessons, but its not music education. The educational opportunities are obvious, but its kind of like stating that "water is wet". Yes you learn about music (I learned a ton, much of which I'm still using today), but its not music education. First maybe we should ask the question who is Drum Corpst for:1) Drum Corps is an educational opportunity for the youth. Far beyond music and marching. Drum Corps teaches integrity, effort, team work, excelling, commitment, etc. etc. etc. Drum Corps is first for the youth, the performing members. (Yes a fan base is required for the activity to survive) 2) Drum Corps is a competitive art form, creative, innovative and dynamic. This art form (as all art form) appeals to certain groups (the Fan). As with all art forms they are dynamic and change based on the artist/performers. This change affects the fan base. Some fans may not enjoy where the art form moves to while new fans may be attracted. This is no different that any other art form (Music, Movies, Dress, etc.) Although I may or may not particularly like every program in the last several years and I may think the activity was “more artistic” 35 years ago when I marched and if I ran my own corps I would do things my way but SO WHAT! This is not 35 years ago and I do not run a Drum Corps. Just because I do not think it is at its artistic best. I’ll bet many (perhaps all) of the members do. Its their time, its there artistic expression, It’s their opportunity to leave THEIR mark (Good or Bad) If you don’t enjoy Drum Corps, don’t go but don’t pretend to know what is best for the activity. Read the show reviews; read the post many many many people dig what is going on. Ask the members. It’s not about us old farts. We had our time let them have theirs! It amazes me that someone thinks they can speak for what is good art and what is bad art. My daughter loves Rap and I hate it. So what, who’s right? Art without growth and innovation is not art. When it is “directed” in a particular direction or held in the same place it becomes something less that art. Did you see Crowns show last year or better yet did you witness SCV’s magnificent portrait. Trust me the activity from an art form is just fine. If you don’t like it, check back in 10 years it will be different. Leave the art form to the designers and performers or become a Corps director and create your own vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I voted years ago. I have not attended a show since 2004.Why bother? The shows are just WGI shows expanded and with live music. At best,they are BOA shows done very well. If I want to see excellence in those realms, I can attend their shows. The kids marching now are better trained and better prepared to produce their product than ever, but I no longer care about the product. As I tell my students: "Art started in the heart, not the head." When crowds no longer react from emotion, but rather from intellectual appreciation, I feel we have lost something special. Well said.....and when the judging system totally rewards performances as though nothing is wrong, even though there is little emotional connection to the audience, this will only continue. Even sadder is that those who have the power to change (ie the arrangers) don't even recognize the problem, or they simply don't care. GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 This is a consumerism issue. There is NO WAY anyone could argue that the shows in 2010 generate anywhere close to the level of excitement that shows 10, 15, or 20 years ago did (heck, lets bo back to '68 Royal Airs). I wish there was a way to measure this but there's not. And there is NO WAY you can scientifically prove that the shows 10, 15, or 20 years ago generate as much excitement as the current shows. Afterall, excitement is a human emotion that is affected by more things than we can imagine. No, I did not see shows live 20 years ago... but I did 10 years ago..... and I, along with many of my friends, think they are just as if not more exciting today. It is all opinion. Dwindling audiences do not prove anything..... a more subdued crowd reaction does not prove anything. Frankly, compared to the change in drum corps shows from 1980-1985, to me 1990 drum corps seems eerily similar to 2010 drum corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 This is a consumerism issue. There is NO WAY anyone could argue that the shows in 2010 generate anywhere close to the level of excitement that shows 10, 15, or 20 years ago did (heck, lets bo back to '68 Royal Airs). I wish there was a way to measure this but there's not. Now this is getting silly. You do realize that you claim objective truth in one sentence, only to confess in the very next sentence that your claim cannot be measured objectively? You're trying to make the personal the universal, and it's simply not. If you don't like the shows, don't go, but this continued insistence that today's fans are wrong to prefer drum corps present over drum corps past is starting to make you look petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Blatch Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 It is all opinion. Dwindling audiences do not prove anything..... a more subdued crowd reaction does not prove anything. Frankly, compared to the change in drum corps shows from 1980-1985, to me 1990 drum corps seems eerily similar to 2010 drum corps. Incorrect. To the fan, their perception (of which they form their opinion) is reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts