The difference between a clean show and an entertaining show

[garfield]

Completely agree! That's why I don't (or try not to) use terms like "the crowd" or "everyone" as is so liberally done on DCP. That's just pure opinion that is attempting to gain strength or validity by adding the unknown and unmeasureable.

Aka: the straw man from Wizard of Oz.

(Or CATHERINE in butch)

[michsta8]

I guess one solution to this problem would be to institute penalties for dropped equipment. This way it can be huge factor in scoring. I am so sick of seeing so many dropped pieces of equipment. Its like, ok its hard to throw a saber 30 feet in the air. If you don't catch it,no big deal currently you are not penalized so I guess everyone can try 50ft throws, drop them all and be rewarded because it was difficult to execute and they tried. If every dropped piece of equipment was given a 1/10 tic, you would see a difference in scoring, cleaner shows. But i guess thee are some on here who would say the dropped equipmnet is entertaining.

[MikeN]

One telling quote I picked up from DCI in '08 was from a corps person I was talking to after the show, who commented that "it was nice that the audience favorite and the judges' favorite were the same this time. That doesn't happen that often."

I think it's just the nature of the beast, especially with so many corps competing each year. Statistically, the chances of the stars aligning in all areas aren't that high.

(And finally, the judges don't look for the smae things the audience does, clearly, thus the common disparity.)

Mike

[DCImonkey]

One telling quote I picked up from DCI in '08 was from a corps person I was talking to after the show, who commented that "it was nice that the audience favorite and the judges' favorite were the same this time. That doesn't happen that often."

I think it's just the nature of the beast, especially with so many corps competing each year. Statistically, the chances of the stars aligning in all areas aren't that high.

(And finally, the judges don't look for the smae things the audience does, clearly, thus the common disparity.)

Mike

....and this is why the General Effect sheets need to be shredded and re-written. The GE sheets should almost be written from a fans POV.....how does this music come across to the audience? How does this visual component reach mom and dad?

[Ace Holleran]

I really think it's a convergence of demand, effect and execution.

It's like the age-old saying in the restaurant biz: You can have it fast, good or cheap--pick any two.

All the winners I've seen excelled in two of the above criteria and were verrrrry close in the third. Sometimes, they aced all three--The Concord team in '94 come to mind.

Take a look at Cadets/Star in '93. SoI might have been the cleanest corps I've ever seen. Second place. And that's where I had them.

Fans look at the whole megillah; judges tend to their captions. As a DCA poster recently said, if each judge keeps two corps within tenths of each other, this can add up to 2-3 points at the end of the day. The ruckus with the all-age corps this year is that Reading are not only going for their sixth undefeated season in a row, but are winning by big margins.

Designers--even the giants in the field--have no idea in November whether their programs will be entertaining or not.

I also think some die-hard DCI fans are spoiled; they're looking for perfection. Go watch Jersey Surf this year. They are slotted 'way down at the southern end of World Class, yet I loved every second of their show. It is great drum corps, IMHO.

Unlike most fans, I am lucky to have met many judges. We talk. And I never write a word of what they say. But it's never about scores--it's about excellence.

One DCI brass judge (not on the job anymore) actually sat with me on night 2 in Allentown for about 2 corps. He had worked the night before. We made an agreement that everything was off-record. His remarks to me were so spot-on, it was almost silly. "Watch the visual here; the mellos are trying so hard to hit their spots that they can't play this part," and the like.

About 99% of the fans and marchers I meet are biased--and about a third of them ridiculously so.

I have met exactly one biased judge. It was at a HS band event I announced, and we were both in the press box. He said to one of his buddies, "Didja see [band name]? I HATED them." FWIW, I have never seen this cretin at any corps show.

Yes, as the years go by, there are some shows I like more than others. Sometimes I wonder what designers were thinking when they did their stuff--especially when a corps can't clean or sell their show.

At the same time, I celebrate this wonderful activity and relish my teensy part in it.

In the spirit,

Ace

[Matt_S]

Ace, you're the man.

[dcikon2]

After viewing a couple shows live this season I thought that I should provide my feelings on the "entertainment" aspect of drum corps. I will say that there are some wonderfully designed shows this year. However, there are some shows that I would never buy a CD to listen to their music. It bothers me that some corps put shows on the field that I feel play to the judging sheets while not trying to reach the fans. I can appreciate great stagingand drill design, mature brass sounds, and excellent guard work. However, I get offended with msuic selections that are chopped up and ones that are difficult for me to relate to. Another problem is that I have taken friends to drum corps competitions and they now refuse to go after watching several shows that are difficult to follow. I will say this year is better. Drum corps is hurting themselves.

[BrassClef]

"You can only get judged on what you achieve."

[MikeN]

It bothers me that some corps put shows on the field that I feel play to the judging sheets while not trying to reach the fans.

You know, we see this statement all the time, from just about all facets of folks in the activity. "Playing to the sheets" vs "playing to the crowd." I guess my question is why the sheets have to be opposed? I know I've been advocating this across threads, but I still maintain that GE should be redistributed as "audience effect." Not an applause meter or anything quite like that, but the intent of the caption should be the show's effect on an audience, instead of an equally abstract "how logically does this show display its artistry?" I'd even suggest reducing the points in the caption as well, so that execution trumps design (like 60/40 or 70/30) - but you still won't do well (or win) without AE.

Mike

[Plan9]

After viewing a couple shows live this season I thought that I should provide my feelings on the "entertainment" aspect of drum corps. I will say that there are some wonderfully designed shows this year. However, there are some shows that I would never buy a CD to listen to their music. It bothers me that some corps put shows on the field that I feel play to the judging sheets while not trying to reach the fans. I can appreciate great stagingand drill design, mature brass sounds, and excellent guard work. However, I get offended with msuic selections that are chopped up and ones that are difficult for me to relate to. Another problem is that I have taken friends to drum corps competitions and they now refuse to go after watching several shows that are difficult to follow. I will say this year is better. Drum corps is hurting themselves.

To each his own for sure, but when you use the term "offended" does that mean that if you like country music and you hear "hip hop" playing that you are offended by it? I just feel that this is a lot of hoo hah about nothing. Some people like jazz, others like classical or even John Philips Sousa. Why can't corps explore different musical genres without being labeled as destroying drum corps. It's just not so.

To me it's just another form of control...."like what I like or else!"