The truth.

[BigW]

Bando...

These men and women have FORGOTTEN more drills and music for all the years that they marched in drum corps than you will EVER remember.

Get off your high horse. If you have that much of a problem with DCI/DCA/WGI judging and the caliber of product that the corps put out (especially with DCA being a weekend sport) then don't go to shows or stay with your marching band.

Remember that DCA has been around since the 1960's and DCI (1970's). but Drum & Bugle Corps, if you didn't know, started as a para-military organization for all of our veterans who returned from World War II. Don't talk about drum corps who "cover" other shows...really.

Okay, I'm done.

Oh yeah, since you like spouting off, why didn't you sign your name? Probably because you're from one of the corps that got blasted by the judges (if you even march in DCA).

Heck.... it actually started after WW1 because there was a ton of Military surplus equipment around and the VFW and AL thought it'd be a good way to get kids involved in something positive.

Hey! You were with the Patriots? Was Carm there when you were there? I loved the guy dearly, and miss him terribly. A real proponent of doing this activity for the love of it and to help kids move ahead in their lives in a positive way.

[flaggirl86]

Heck.... it actually started after WW1 because there was a ton of Military surplus equipment around and the VFW and AL thought it'd be a good way to get kids involved in something positive.

Hey! You were with the Patriots? Was Carm there when you were there? I loved the guy dearly, and miss him terribly. A real proponent of doing this activity for the love of it and to help kids move ahead in their lives in a positive way.

My faux pas. I didn't think they HAD bugles back in WW1...lol (really, I'm joking).

But what I was referring to was the Skyliners back when. If I can do my corps' history justice, if you weren't a veteran, you couldn't march in the corps as it was American Legion/VFW sponsored. Thus, so many corps were male only.

Y'know, asking if Carmen was there when I marched is like asking if a bear s**ts in the woods. (lol) YES, I was one of Carmen's kids and YES, I miss him terribly too. Carmen was a major influence in the Garden State Circuit and I was one of his kids from '78 to '83. We need more positive influences on our kids like he was for us. A lot of the Cranford kids still keep in touch, even though they're not "kids" anymore.

Who are you, by the way? Do I know you? My maiden name is Rizzolo. And I didn't even realize that my name isn't on my signature line. I'll change that now.

Edited July 23, 2010 by flaggirl86

[hairbear]

Absolutely, Gus.

As the saying goes: "Young people... they are authorities on a number of subjects."

I think the "title" of this thread is catchy. "The Truth".... As if this revelation came to us on stone tablets.

[BigW]

My faux pas. I didn't think they HAD bugles back in WW1...lol (really, I'm joking).

But what I was referring to was the Skyliners back when. If I can do my corps' history justice, if you weren't a veteran, you couldn't march in the corps as it was American Legion/VFW sponsored. Thus, so many corps were male only.

Y'know, asking if Carmen was there when I marched is like asking if a bear s**ts in the woods. (lol) YES, I was one of Carmen's kids and YES, I miss him terribly too. Carmen was a major influence in the Garden State Circuit and I was one of his kids from '78 to '83. We need more positive influences on our kids like he was for us. A lot of the Cranford kids still keep in touch, even though they're not "kids" anymore.

Who are you, by the way? Do I know you? My maiden name is Rizzolo. And I didn't even realize that my name isn't on my signature line. I'll change that now.

Nah, you don't know me, hon. I was marching DCA when you were at Cranford. I met Carm not long after that through NJA and got to know him more there and really love Carm and Theresa a ton. I wasn't sure of his involvement at Cranford past 1980ish.

And speaking of the GSC, one of the best things I did in my life, period, was to do two years of judging there mid-90's, and work with Carm when he was with Newark. That's another story, and the ending of the GSC and the whole mess with judging changes and affiliations there that took place in '96 is to me, extremely sad.

[BigW]

" Don't be bitter with me because I called out those who think they know everything. Oh the spread this, the spread that. There is a reason for a judging panel! None of these people constantly complaining, yes none, are qualified to Judge IMO"

I am not bitter whatsoever. I am also not bashing Reading, I think they're a dynamite corps, but then I love Statesmen, Hawthorne, Hurricane's, Bush, Sun Devils, MBI, Renegades and every corps in DCA. I don't dislike any DCI corps either.

BTW....what is the qualifications to be a judge?

Depends, Keith. To get into NJA on Music, they'd like a Music Degree or for you to be working on one. Visual judges, no.

Apply/express an interest, attend the clinic, pass the trial and mentoring process, which can take less than a season if you're good, and you're on board. Different judging associations have different criteria, or none at all, or very little, actually. NJA's process is pretty tough compared to most out there.

DCA looks for good people with experience and good reps from different associations to fill their ranks when they need them etc. I know they look for people with a solid corps experience and background as a performer or instructor, I can think of only one DCA judge I know of that didn't have that, but their educational resume, their honesty, and talent's held them in high respect and good stead.

[NYSkyliner]

Heck.... it actually started after WW1 because there was a ton of Military surplus equipment around and the VFW and AL thought it'd be a good way to get kids involved in something positive.

Actually the first use of horns and drums in a marching setting was by guilds of artisans as far back as the 14th century. The New York Daily News sponsored a Drum Corps show back in either 1963 or '64 in Shea Stadium. It was a rather large show with prelims during the day and finals in the evening. In exhibition at that show was (at that time) the oldest known Drum & Bugle Corps in the world. They were from Dusseldorf, Germany. They were dressed in attire that was from the 14th century and they numbered maybe 15 or 20 members and played music that was reminiscent of the 14th century, none of the modern tunes that was prevalent to the 1960s. Just sayin'.

[BigW]

Actually the first use of horns and drums in a marching setting was by guilds of artisans as far back as the 14th century. The New York Daily News sponsored a Drum Corps show back in either 1963 or '64 in Shea Stadium. It was a rather large show with prelims during the day and finals in the evening. In exhibition at that show was (at that time) the oldest known Drum & Bugle Corps in the world. They were from Dusseldorf, Germany. They were dressed in attire that was from the 14th century and they numbered maybe 15 or 20 members and played music that was reminiscent of the 14th century, none of the modern tunes that was prevalent to the 1960s. Just sayin'.

Cool! I think though we were trying to get the start of the whole competitive activity here in the US and Canada nailed down. It did really take off after WW2, Barb hit that nail on square on the head.

The Marching activity in general really took off as well, and also Wind Band in many aspects....

[Jeff Ream]

Oh but how it actually is a Wizard of Oz show. I will explain. Never have I claimed to know all the answers, but this I am sure of. Alright here we go, lets be objective for a second. The show starts off with the brass playing a truly beautiful arrangement of the Promise of Living. The Wizard of Oz starts off with everything calm and happy for the most part does it not? The first actual movement of the show is called Storm. Oddly enough there was a Twister that basically set everything in motion. This is even reflected in the Drill design with the brass running in a "vortex" if you will. The actual opener can be described as being off to see the wizard, and collecting the posse. Then for the percussion feature which segways into Puck then into Sensemaya, depicts the flip flopping struggle between good end evil. Then the closer, give it a listen, it recaps the whole production in a way, and starts off with a joyful perhaps glorious pep. Tis is the point where they have found the wizard and such. Then Storm is used again along with somewhere over the rainbow at the same time... almost as if the Wicked Witch has been defeated, but it is subtle. then more triumphant music. Please, just accept this as fact for I know that it actually is. No disrespect to you was meant personally. On the issue of clean performances, sure some are much cleaner than others, but they never reach a Jr. Corps quality of clean do to the fact that the rehearsal time doesn't even begin to compare. Clean for DCA, but actually clean... I would disagree. No disrespect meant there either. DCA is more difficult mentally due to the fact that the show isn't constantly drilled into you.

My post has nothing to do with the annual meetings. It has to do with people bashing a respectable organization (The Reading Buccaneers). Again, I never said that I know everything. Don't be bitter with me because I called out those who think they know everything. Oh the spread this, the spread that. There is a reason for a judging panel! None of these people constantly complaining, yes none, are qualified to Judge IMO. No one person can put up an accurate number judging alone. So when I see posts saying "I had a 1.5 point spread using the same sheets!!!" Posters are basically digging their own grave when they act like they know more than a judge. Grant it some judges are more respectable than others, but this isn't the TIA, TOB... from my understanding those circuits are cursed with under qualified judges. Thankfully I have never had to deal with any of that since it is a long way from home.

concept: check

content: check

demand: check

general performance quality: check

staff that is among the best in the marching world: check

an efficient rehearsal method :check

a record that you do not get w/o the aforementioned: check

I think it is very fair to say that the Buccaneer organization has this activity figured out pretty well. Don't be bitter about it, be real. Denying reality will get you nowhere.

First point is not a joke at all, you clearly lack a complete understanding of judging.

Actually a fair amount of judging is based on comparison.

Your 5th and 6th sentence nullifies your entire argument against me. well done.

The Green Coats take the field first for the night. The percussion ensemble has a strong performance... not yet completely clean but respectable... the dynamic contrast is apparent.

Judge: leaves comments on the tape as needed and writes down an overall benchmark number of 16.9

The Orange Eaters take the field second. Their battery plays completely together, but stands out of the ensemble like Shaquille O'Neal in Tokyo, and the book is relatively bland.

Judge: hmm was that better or worse than what I just saw... they could play clean with each other... there were really only two dynamics the whole show Loud and Louder... 16.45

The Pink Swordsmen take the field, They play almost as clean as the Orange Eaters, exceed the Green Coats in dynamic control, and have a book that seamlessly fits into the ensemble.

Judge: was that better or worse than what I saw previously. better. ok now what about the Geen Coats? yes. ok... 17.2

That is what happens. Welcome to it. There isn't a tick system anymore.

funny you target TOB and TIA. You should check out the roster of judges...you'd see faces that have/had/are judging in DCI and DCA and WGI.

[Jeff Ream]

1) Yes I agree with you, that was my point... I was mocking those that complain about it, be it mid season or finals time.

When I see people make completely illegitimate and narrow minded arguments, I then look at the bottom and see all of the gloating... look what I did... Respect me. It is the individual whose insight does not match their long list of experience that I feel is unqualified. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

I addressed the cleanliness issue in another post. Give that a read, and let me know your thoughts.

I realize DCA corps will never be as clean as DCI...I've admitted it. That said, I've seen/been a part of some #### clean drumlines at the DCA level. IMO, while doing that which you rail against here, I was part of a line that had DCi corps members tell us after we performed at THEIR semifinals how they loved us because of how clean we were...and we had a few weeks to go.

then you trashed a circuit of judges, many of whom have judged on the national level and you lost me

[YR-Rudi]

Actually the first use of horns and drums in a marching setting was by guilds of artisans as far back as the 14th century.

And Mike should know. He was in the horn line back then.